.png)
Write the Damn Book Already
Writing and publishing a phenomenal book doesn’t have to be ridiculously complicated or mind-numbingly overwhelming. From myths and misconceptions to practical tips and sound strategies, Elizabeth Lyons (author, book writing coach, book editor, and founder of Finn-Phyllis Press), helps writers feel more in control of and comfortable with the business of book publishing.
Her interviews with fellow authors discussing their writing processes and publishing journeys aim to help you untangle YOUR process so you can finally get your story into the world.
Write the Damn Book Already
Ep 142: Writing, Endings & Publishing Myths with Novelist Turner Gable Kahn
Click Here to ask your book writing and publishing questions!
What happens when a traditionally published debut novel suddenly appears on Kindle Unlimited while still showing wide? That unexpected twist opens into a bigger conversation about publishing decisions (and what’s actually within an author’s control).
In this episode, Turner Gable Kahn, author of The Dirty Version (Harper Perennial), shares how she honored her grandmothers with a pen name, threaded #MeToo-era questions into a contemporary romance, and wrestled with multiple endings before landing on the one that aligned with her feminist lens.
We also dig into her writing process. And, the publishing side. A sharp agent and editor helped shape her manuscript, but much to many authors' chagrin, even with a major publishing house, you’re still the one creating assets, posting, and doing the lion's share of marketing.
If you’re weighing traditional vs. indie, fighting the mid-book slump, or simply trying to finish without losing your mind, this conversation offers both clarity and solidarity.
✍️ You've Been Thinking About This Book Forever. So let's start writing (for real this time).
No incense, inspirational playlists, or fancy mantras. Just a clear, doable plan to get your nonfiction or memoir draft written in 33 days.
👉 https://www.publishaprofitablebook/writethebook
WANT TO SELL MORE BOOKS (WITHOUT THE SELF-PROMO CRINGE)?
Grab my 25+ done-for-you email templates, book launch graphics, and book promo tools designed to help nonfiction, memoir, and fiction authors build buzz and drive sales, without feeling pushy.
🎉 CLICK HERE to access to the templates
Write the Damn Book Already is a weekly podcast featuring interviews with authors as well as updates and insights on writing craft and the publishing industry.
Available wherever podcasts are available:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
YouTube
Let's Connect!
Instagram
Website
Email the show: elizabeth [at] elizabethlyons [dot] com
The podcast is a proud affiliate partner of Bookshop, working to support local, independent bookstores.
To see all the ways we can work together to get your book written and published, visit publishaprofitablebook.com/work-with-elizabeth
I'm I have a couple different questions actually because I went and I looked and the book is out, right? Your book came out in July, correct? The dirty version. I mean, talk about a great title.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. Yes. It came out in the US in July. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:In the UK in July?
SPEAKER_01:In the US in July.
SPEAKER_02:In the US in July. Okay, perfect. And so here's what I thought was interesting. So after we exchanged emails and Neely turned me on to you and all these things, I went and I looked at it on Amazon and I saw that it was available within Kindle Unlimited. And I thought, wait, I don't understand. Because I was certain that you were with Harper Perennial, which you are. So I went and I looked to see if the ebook was available through, say, Barnes and Noble, like through a Nook, and it was. So I think I've learned something through this, Turner. I think I've learned that if you're a traditionally published author, it's possible. And if anyone knows this, please message me and let me know that you actually can be like wide and KDP select too, maybe for a period of time. Do you know anything about that?
SPEAKER_01:You know, I don't. So I would love to say something intelligent and shed some light on that. Um, I would really, I would really love to. I don't. And in fact, I did not know that the book was available on Kindle Unlimited until Yeah, I didn't know that. Um, and I saw it when a book blogger had posted about it. And then I looked at it and something that maybe I should ask um my publishing team about, but I haven't.
SPEAKER_02:Well, if you do and you find out, could you let me know? Because first of all, we're both trying to be coherent because it's 8 a.m. where you are you in Singapore? Is that what you mentioned? Singapore.
SPEAKER_03:Singapore.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm in Phoenix where it's 5 p.m. And I have long made it clear that I function with my words best between 11 and 3:30.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:So if we're on either side of 11 a.m. or 3:30 p.m., like it's at your own risk, is really yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'll bets are off. I'll bets are off.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm really impressed that at 8 a.m. you are, you seem really quite with it.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thank you very much. I've had some coffee, but um, you know, I'm I'm used to you working with the time difference. So actually, like this is this is like very manageable for me. You know, I I've been up earlier for calls.
SPEAKER_02:So no, I and I'm loving the if people are watching this on YouTube, the illustrations behind you. Are there is there significance to those?
SPEAKER_01:Um, they're just uh, you know, it's no, it's an Italian illustrator, um, and I just love her work.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, I do too. Obviously, I'm kind of looking at those and then at you and then at them.
SPEAKER_01:And I love her work.
SPEAKER_02:Are they all this they're all the same artist?
SPEAKER_01:They're all the same artists, and she does really cool portraits, uh, illustrations of one.
SPEAKER_02:I like those a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, the reason the KDP struck me is that in the indie community for indie authors, we have to pick. We have to pick between going KDP select or going white. And so that's sometimes a difficult decision for authors to make, and it's a whole conversation in and of itself. But I suddenly thought, wow, I wonder if this is different for traditionally published authors.
SPEAKER_01:No, you know, and so this is one of those things, especially as a debut, you know, a lot happens, many decisions are made um that I'm not involved.
SPEAKER_02:That you're unaware of.
SPEAKER_01:I'm aware of, apparently. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So tell me, okay, your the your author name is Turner. Your would we say your legal name or your given name is Tracy?
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Can I ask what I I'm I'm intrigued when authors you I mean, I would love to write under a different name at some point, frankly. It just sounds fun. What compelled that to be the case?
SPEAKER_01:Well, Turner and Gable are my grandmother's maiden names. That's fantastic. So Okay. So, and I and I am not 21. I'm a bit older than that. And so a lot about this book, you know, I just thought if I'm only and I hope to do this many, many, many times. But I've done lots of things in my career before this. And this is my debut novel. And, you know, everything about the content was meaningful to me, and including the author name. And so those are my grandmother's maiden names. My surname is are my daughter's and my son's name. And I just thought that would be pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I see, I love that. Like significance is, and now you've actually given me another question, which I didn't have originally, which was so what are you saying the interior, like the story itself was significant to you as well?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I mean, all of it, you know, all of it. Like I it's a culmination of, you know, a lot, a lot of work. So I've I've like done other creative things in my life, but this was this was uh like beyond a dream. It was really the type of thing I never thought every step of the way, I thought, oh, that'll never happen. That'll never happen, that'll never happen. And it did. So, and so I hope that it happens more. But if it only ever happens once, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Well, if it happens once, it can happen again, right? But what, so where did this come from? Where did the idea for the book and the dream for to do it, where did that all come from?
SPEAKER_01:Um, so I mean, I mean, well, I've been writing for a really long time, and I um was writing literary fiction before this, and I wasn't able to get an agent for it. I wasn't able to sell it. And all of those other manuscripts, I think, were super instructive. I get it, it's all part of the journey. They're like, you know, each one was an MFA. So in about 2019, 2020, I was querying a book of literary fiction that I couldn't get representation for. And um, and then a couple of years before that, in about 2016, we'll say, um, and during me too, I every morning you would wake up and you would see another horrendous headline. And I remember having this conversation with my girlfriends and just saying, oh, like somebody needs to write a book about a world without men. I mean, I have the text because on my on my little on my chat. But dystopia, dystopian novels are not things that I had that were I felt were in my wheelhouse. Anyway, I kept the idea in the back of my head. And I I think like a month or two later, The Power by Naomi Alderman came out, which is a book about girls getting the power to shoot lightning from their fingertips, and it like overturns the world order. So those things were so it's and it's it's this idea that like if if women are no longer f physically vulnerable, what happens in society? So anyway, th those ideas were in my head. And um at the same time, the adaptation of normal people came out and uh and Bridgerton and all these, there were all these articles in the papers that I was reading anyway about intimacy coordinators. Um and that also seemed like a it was a very post-me too, it was a reaction to me too, that all of a sudden seemed like a very feminist thing. So in 2021, when I had shelved the things I was working on, and I sat down with a very clear plan, like I want to write a commercial contemporary romance. I'm I love romance, I read a lot of romance, I read widely, but I love romance. And I love this, I love the container of a of a romance novel, the story arc. And so it all kind of came together in this. Like I want, and I also like fetishized academia.
SPEAKER_02:I have like a like okay, things pull out quotes. I fetishized academia.
SPEAKER_01:I do. I do like some life I never had as a professor. Like I could, so I've now like one fetish.
SPEAKER_02:That's interesting. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Academia. So so it all sort of came together. Um I got to talk about the dystopian novel without having to write it. I got to talk about all these, you know, things that I talked about with my girlfriends that were, you know, in the water and the culture. So it all sort of came together in this book.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. And then did you, when you sat down to do it, how long are we talking? To first let's let's talk about like first draft. Are you a rusher?
SPEAKER_01:Like, do you get right there or I so I write with a coach or I came to writing with a coach. So so previous manuscripts, I I had found a coach for the manuscript before this. Um I love and I really clicked with. And so when I told her this is I wanted to work on this project, she put me through like her boot camp, which was and she which I was so helpful, and I'll never, I'll never write without this process again. So she made me do like the full outline, all the character packs, everything really so that I would know exactly what I was doing. So I sat down with a very clear blueprint. I didn't start writing until that was really vetted. So it took me 18 months. Well, it took me, I started writing in September of 2021 and I started querying it in December too. Okay. Okay. So it was about three drafts, but I really felt like I had a plan this time, which I hadn't had in the past.
SPEAKER_02:So in previously you were more of a pantser?
SPEAKER_01:I was more of a pantser. Okay. And it didn't serve me well because I would get to the middle, or like for romance, like there'll be like a consummation in the middle, and I would get to the middle and I'd be like, oh, they did it. Like now I'm not interested. Right. Not gonna finish that. So now what?
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So for me, it was very helpful.
SPEAKER_02:Like, did how much did you find that the narrative changed or did it at all from your original outline?
SPEAKER_01:Well, the narrative did not change that much. I did not plan for the book within the book to mirror the book, and that was sort of a happy accident.
SPEAKER_00:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01:So that that was not a plan. And once I saw that happening, then I sort of capitalized on it, but it wasn't a plan. Okay. But what did change after I signed with my agent before we went on submission? She wanted to change a little bit of chronology because she wanted to get all the tension together. So we moved like a couple scenes around, and that required like the dominoes that fell from that. That required some fixing up. But um, and I did write several different endings. I mean, I mean not wildly different. Not like there were zombies in one, like not that. But um, but the how the story wrapped up, I did do a different few different versions of.
SPEAKER_02:And then and how did you determine which one you wanted to go with?
SPEAKER_01:Well the I went with the one that was the most feminist, actually. And that and because this like the story sort of talk talks about feminism, and then there's like this meta element where I was trying to to uh walk my own walk, talk my own talk. Like, okay, so really like what's the female lens for this? So really, what's the most feminist version of this? And so so that's how I chose.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Having been in the space for a while, you know, writing for a while, what's something about the I want to say the art or the job or the all of the above of being a writer that people just don't grasp and it steers them in the wrong direction. Does my question make sense?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, other than the existential loneliness of writing.
SPEAKER_02:So that's where I'm going, right? Is that this sort of misconception that people have. It's always fun to say, okay, knowing what you know now, well, and a common question is, what would you tell an earlier version of yourself? I like to ask authors what they would tell someone who's newly coming into the space, right? What regardless of genre, but if you want to tackle specifically women's fiction, like what have you discovered that you thought, wow, I didn't realize how prevalent this is, whatever this.
SPEAKER_01:Oh well, to answer your first question, maybe about like the practice, I think there's a misconception. I think I had a misconception when I was younger that like you would get a great idea and then you'd be struck with inspiration and like, and you just write the novel. And um, and so I would like to tell, and I don't not that I wasted time because I think everything is, you know, has a purpose and um it's all the process, but um, for me, you know, the beautiful results did not come from that. The beautiful results came from a lot of hard work that and it's you know, and it's just a grind and so and discipline. And so I think there's this romantic notion, and that you can hear from from less experienced people, you know, and even like procrastination is sort of like not glorified, but like, you know, uh, I should be writing, but I'm not.
SPEAKER_02:It's like the starving artist thing. Kind of artists.
SPEAKER_01:No, like not a thing. Like you should be writing, but you're not. Okay, then you're not gonna finish that book. And so the amount of um, it's almost like athletics. Somebody gave me this great book, is what I what I talk about when I talk about running. It's a Merkami book, and it's actually a writing book. And I think I'm I think I'm saying that right. And it's about how his practice of writing mirrors his practice of running marathons, and which is it's the same amount of discipline. Like you get up and you do it, and you just get in the steps. And so for me, it's also the same thing for me. So for me, like you get up, you do, and for me, it's also I do this and I do yoga, and I do this and I do yoga. And that's the only way I survive.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and that's the only way I survive. I love that. And also there's your fetishizing of academia that plays into your life as well, right? There's survival there. I, you know, and and the whole thing about sort of poking fun. It's not poking fun, but it's relating to other writers about how hard it can feel some days to get your ass in the chair. Yesterday I went to the gym, which anyone who knows me is like you did. Was your house on fire? Like, why would you go to the gym? Um, and I took this picture of like I was on this treadmill. My sister had sent me this 20 minute, it was supposed to be this super simple 20-minute treadmill workout that in your 50s can help your cardiovascular. So I was like, how okay, 20 minutes. It was awful, Turner. It was awful. I I thought I almost died like four times, but I posted on my stories something to the effect of like these are the lengths I will go to to procrastinate writing. And it's true, and it's also to your point, I know also if I don't, if I focus more on why I'm not writing, I won't write. And if I don't write, it will never get finished.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:It will simply never get finished. And we can't think our way to a finished book.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, absolutely. And and I would say, even, I don't know if this answers the second part of your question before, but now that I have a book out and I'm working on another, I've been working on other books the whole time. I can't, it is not helpful to me to take in reaction to my current book while I'm writing another book because I think that is the the the more that's in your head, I think the I think it is uh will murder creativity for me.
SPEAKER_02:And it's so interesting how everybody really has a different, I mean, it makes sense that people have a different perspective on it. Sometimes I talk to people who say, I I love to read reviews, they inform my writing process. Other people, right? I know your face. That's kind of how I feel, right? I'm terrified when I go to look at my reviews. Other people say I never ever read a review. Other yeah, there's a whole thing, and I don't think any of that is right or wrong. It's just discovering. Sometimes we discover what works for us by discovering what doesn't work for us.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:So what about those previous novels that you wrote that didn't get picked up? Are they have you relinquished them to the proverbial drawer? How do you feel about that?
SPEAKER_01:Um, no, I do think that um that you know, I it's funny. Um you end up kind of always writing, I end up kind of always writing about the same thing, just in different ways. So I think that those ideas live. And I think I think those books really served me in terms of learning about storytelling um and characters. But there are some themes for sure that um that will come through. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:Through all of them.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, specifically, um, like I used to do first person storytelling like the moth. Yeah, sure. So um, so the book I'm working on on now is set in that world. And I had I had been trying to write about it before, and I just kind of wasn't able to. And so, so it's the kind of it's the same character, that same person, different version of it, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So I picked up the thread.
SPEAKER_02:So do you are you someone who enjoys challenging yourself with something new with each book? So maybe you say with a thread, but something new, a different POV or a different something, something.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, and also absolutely. And I think I think in order to stay creative, but also um a book, while the traditional published book lives with you for a long time because you're writing it and then you're getting an agent, and then you're it's on submission, and then it's 18 months after it was purchased that it actually comes out. And then it comes out in, you know, if you're lucky enough for it to come out in other countries, like the German version of the dirty version will the German edition will come out in the spring. So just kind of, and it just came out in Australia. So it like it goes on and on and on. And I'm, you know, you're ready, you love it, and you're so grateful, but you're also ready to move on to other things. Yeah, something else.
SPEAKER_02:And so, with in mind, keeping in mind how you look at reviews or don't look at reviews in this case, right? When you're working on your next thing, what's your process now for when you're as you're working on the next one? I guess how the way I want to phrase this is a lot of people think once I've written a book, this will all get easier because I will have one under my belt. And I think there are probably some aspects of it that do, or at least that feel more normal. I think that something that people don't anticipate or expect is a potential feeling that, oh God, now I'm being compared to that book. So I was speaking with someone recently who said, I, you know, I feel bad when an author's debut has this like rabid success because it's almost sets you up for some sort of a challenge. Right. How do you go about compartmentalizing that?
SPEAKER_01:Um well, it's funny. Um I think having done it once, in this case for me, is very freeing because I have because once your book is out in the world, um, it gets all different types of reactions. It gets some great reactions, it gets some angry reactions. And if you and I'm not saying that I have made peace with that, and I'm not saying that I'm that my feelings about it, uh I have closure around um how I feel about it, but um, it's freeing because it's like, well, some people are gonna like it and some people aren't. And so so moving on, I think it allows you to do, well, now I mean, what does it matter? Like I want, I can do whatever crazy thing I want to do and see where it ends up because you truly cannot anticipate the reception to your novel, to your work.
SPEAKER_02:It's truly you just cannot.
SPEAKER_01:The thing that you think is gonna happen is not the thing that happens.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And I think as I've often said, people's reaction to a book is many times not about the book at all.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:It's exactly something else that's coming into play. And we have to, it's so helpful. We don't have to, but it's so helpful to be able to kind of disassociate uh someone's opinion about the book with the value or worth of the book.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Because sometimes they they're just not related.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:So so I teach indie authors. I mean, I have not been traditionally published, so I don't consider it my business at all to to teach on that. I teach people how to self-publish or hybrid, somehow indie publish. Right. That said, a lot of my guests here on the podcast are traditionally published, which I love because I'm agnostic. I just there's a pro and a con to everything. And I I think one of my biggest goals is just getting a variety of information out there so people can make their own decisions and hear from all different things. What for you has been like, what about the traditional publishing experience? Do you feel like I would not trade this?
SPEAKER_01:What about the traditional publishing experience? Would I not or is there anything? Wow. Um, first of all, I did really love um, I love the editor that I worked on this book with, and I'm so grateful for. And so both my agent and my editor gave really thoughtful feedback, and they weren't huge changes, but their input made the book stronger, tighter, and I'm very grateful for that. So the kind of the amazing people that I've that I've met at HarperCollins and that made the book better, I wouldn't trade that for the world. You know, that that's so valuable. And I don't know the amazing fellow authors that the platform has allowed me to meet. So, like Neely Alexander, Neely Chimney. Neely, hello and I think is an amazing human.
SPEAKER_03:She is.
SPEAKER_01:And we never would have been connected if we didn't have the same publisher. So I am sure, I'm sure you can find community regardless of how you publish. Um, but I feel very grateful for that. So um, and I think that, and the other thing is for me, well, this is funny because it was a misconception. I thought, well, the thing I really want to concentrate on is the writing. So I want to do the writing, and I thought I could never indeed publish because I could not do all the other work that's associated with that. What I did not realize is that even if you traditionally publish, you're still doing all the work.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01:That is a hilarious thing.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't even have to lead you into that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so for you, right, what did that incumbent? And this, to be clear, my dear listeners, this is not about throwing traditional publishing under the bus at all out there. So right, because that's not what we do here. It's just for people who think it happens all the time when when really, truly all the time, people will say, Well, Elizabeth, I want to traditionally publish. And I'll say, Okay, that's awesome. Tell me why. And they'll say, Because I just want to sit in my office and write. I don't want to do the marketing. I don't want to, I don't want to, they're gonna sell my book for me. And I say, look, let's have a little conversation, let's take a journey and have a talk. And then if you don't believe me, you you can listen to all these episodes where authors are gonna echo this and then you can make the decision. What were the things that you so it's not the the traditional publishing world's fault? It's not, we don't have to put blame on anybody. It's just that the expectations aren't necessarily properly set and the process isn't properly understood before many authors embark upon it. What specifically did you have to have your hands more in that you thought I didn't think I was gonna have to have my hands so deep in this?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think if you're not a control freak, you might have another so somebody who's not a control freak might answer this differently. But I've because I am a huge fan of romance, I am the readership. I mean, I read every, particularly contemporary romance, I read everything that comes out. So, so um the team was always laughing at me because I am like I'm an encyclopedia of you know, the things like every book that has just come out in the past five years. Um, because I'm such a fan, also. So I wasn't really willing to give up, you know, not control of the promotion, because obviously I did. Harper Collins did a lot, did an amazing job. But I was very involved after words. So the book comes, or in the lead up to three months before. So social media, which I said I was never gonna do, it was when I first got on the phone with my agent, I said, you should just know that I don't enjoy social media, so I won't be doing any of that. And when Harper Collins, you should just know that when Harper and I and I said, I don't like um I don't have a million followers, so you don't even need it. Don't worry about it. And when uh when when Harper Collins, when I first had my first call with my editor, Harper Collins, I said, You should just know that I won't be doing any social media.
SPEAKER_02:And he was like, I love it that you said I, so I won't be doing any of that.
SPEAKER_01:So that's okay with you, right? So that did that's not the way that's panned out. And so the the requirements of me on social media, you know, I didn't expect that. And it's it's massive and it's huge. And there's some great parts to that. Like I've actually like struck up, I've I've heard you say that some that you've built like really great relationships with people that you've never met in person via social media, right? I mean, I have also like fellow authors, book bloggers, and I find that to be like that's been amazing. But the work that goes into it is huge.
SPEAKER_02:So when you say the expectations were really like huge when it comes to social media, can you, um, without needing to pull out your contract or anything that you shouldn't do, are we talking like uh the number of posts per week that you were expected to do, or were you expected what what felt huge about it?
SPEAKER_01:Well, um the the Beyond just the fact that you didn't want to do it. I didn't want to do it. Um the amount of well, like the asset the amount of assets that you need to generate um for social media posts, the amount of time that it takes to um respond to messages, to respond to comments, to do all that work. Um and that's just for Instagram, right? Like if you if you're on other platforms. And and then so that was a lot. And the other thing that I spent a lot of time doing that I quite enjoyed, so I won't complain, are like some pitch, like essay pitches for for marketing for the book. And so I really enjoyed that. And also like some special things for different bookstores for book clubs and things like that, which I also really enjoyed. I just didn't anticipate that I was gonna have to do it.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I didn't know that I was gonna have to do it. So it becomes it becomes a whole other job. And if it's not the thing that you feel that you're good at, like if it's not one of your core competencies, there's a big learning curve also in the beginning. And it's just like it's just very time consuming. And I think that you can, I think that, and I don't know, and it could just be like I'm not of the generation where where it's just you just natural, yeah. So I'm not, so it requires time and effort. And I do, and I won't lie, I also feel like it steals a little bit of my soul every time. So it's like it's both, it's both things. And and and you walk away from it and you're like, is this even real? Because and the only reason that I say that, I don't know if this is controversial, but I read a a lot, a lot. And I've I don't get my book recommendations from online platforms at all.
SPEAKER_02:That part of it is so interesting to me to to follow the trajectory of the online, the book talk. And uh, and I'm not on TikTok for platforms, right? I'm almost exclusively on Instagram. I have an account on TikTok, but I'm never ever there. So I can't even speak to the book talk thing over there. I get my book recommendations sometimes from Instagram, but it's not from bookstagrammers for me, and some people many people do, obviously. That's why they do so well. It's because I'll ask through my right. And at the end of this podcast, my last question to everyone is always, what are you reading? That is how I get my so get ready. I mean, we we're gonna need all five years worth, but all 50,000 volumes of things. But it's social media to me, and I'm only on, again, primarily Instagram, and I've been on for a long, I don't want to say how long I've been on. I've been on for a long time. So I feel comfortable. I don't feel like I'm an expert at it at all, but I feel comfortable there. And it still feels like a lot. If I have something launching or one of my authors I work with has a book launching and I'm supporting, it feels like a lot. I cannot even imagine not having been a person who was active on social media and then all of a sudden having to learn all those things simultaneously. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's like, why don't you just tell me to take off all my clothes and go stand in the middle of Times Square?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And yes, it was it's a lot. And I have teenagers, and people would say, well, just give it to your kids to do. Again, also not like that. Sounds simple, but you can't really do that.
unknown:You know what?
SPEAKER_02:I actually, at one point, maybe a year and a half or so ago, it might have even been longer than that. It might have been during COVID or something. I don't know. I was I just wanted to unload some of the social media stuff. And I have kids who now range in age from 17 to 26, but at the time, they were certainly in the age and stage where they could navigate this stuff super quickly. Not only would they not do it for me, but they said, you don't want us to do it. Like it will be you will either appear as though you are 50 and trying to, or in your late 40s at that point, and trying to appear like you're 19. Like we don't know how to talk like you, mom.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Right? So it's it's tough. I mean, social media is meant to be social. So it's it's it's yeah, it yeah. All yeah. That's all I got on that. Yeah. It's a lot. Okay, so what are you reading right now? Or what have you read recently that you just were like this? I wish I could read this again or I want to read this again.
SPEAKER_01:Do you know what? I just finished this book like a day or two ago called Seduction Theory by Emily Adrian. It's not her first book. She's written a bunch of books. It's called Seduction Theory. Is it the thing? And I really fiction. Yeah. Yeah. So uh, so um I said I fetishized academia. It's an academic, it's a campus novel. Um I I really loved it. Um and before that, I read another literary romance called Ordinary Love. That's Marie Vertowski, which I also really loved.
SPEAKER_02:That sounds familiar.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I really I could I highly recommend both. And then and before that, I just finished a friend gave me David Nichols' You Are Here, which came out, the paperback came out in the last year, which is so good. So good. He the same writer who wrote one day. So override.
SPEAKER_02:That's why that okay, that's why I recognize that name. Okay, because I haven't and it's it's I I don't want to say it's embarrassing because it's not, because there's so many books out there. It is so rare, Turner, that someone says a name of a title of a book and I and I really recognize, but I love it.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because then I just find out. I mean, that's how I found out about Taylor Jenkins Reed.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, by from a suggestion of another author, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, from um, I think the suggestion, well, I think the suggestion was Daisy Jones and the six, but then everyone was talking about seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo, so that's the one I picked up. And then it was like, I've got to read everything.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I read Atmosphere over the summer, which I thought was great. You did?
SPEAKER_02:I have not read that yet.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I thought it was great. Really? It's come widely it's the first book of hers that I have read. Really? Yeah, I watched Daisy J. I really I loved, I really enjoyed Atmosphere.
SPEAKER_02:I heard it was rumored to be her best, which is completely subjective. It was just, they were saying it was going to be, you know, the number one book of the year, basically. So I just I like watching and tell me how you feel about this. I enjoy reading, so Neely is a great example. I met Neely right when Love Buzz was coming out. So I read Love Buzz, I loved it. Then In a Not So Perfect World comes out. I read it, I love it. And it's you can see, I'm not gonna use the word better at all, but you can see the progression of an author's craft. And then courtroom drama comes out, and it's just you can, I love that. And so that's kind of what I want to do with Taylor Jenkins Reed is go back and see the I've heard that the progression is is evident.
SPEAKER_01:So I I can't speak to that, but I did that with Gabrielle Zevin. So I had never read any of her books, and then I read tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow. Oh, okay, like like the rest of the universe. And then I went back and read through her catalog, her backlist, which she has like nine other books, and she's amazing. And in fact, last and I and I love, and they're all so different. But last year we did um her not her first, maybe her first or second book is a book called Elsewhere, which is a I think was like maybe a YA book, but it's amazing for all ages. So we read it as a family book club. Oh my gosh. Grandparents, so like three generations. It was like 11 to 83, and it's a like it's a fantastic book. So she is like prenaturally gifted because that was her second book, and then you have something like tomorrow and tomorrow tomorrow. But but I do really love that. And going back to Nealie, now I can't wait to see what she does next because she's like kind of switching genres, and yeah. So that's really cool.
SPEAKER_02:I know she's so fun, she's just such a great human. As you mentioned, that's the thing I love most about her is she's such a good, kind, to the point. I mean, I don't ever have to wonder where I stand with Neely because I know that she's actually helped me with reading some of the beginnings of my novel. And she's just very, there's no flowery. It's like, Liz, this is not working, but with love, right? With love. And I appreciate it so much. That's exactly what I'm looking for. Which, by the way, slight aside about Neely, that I really appreciate. And I think that if you're looking for, if anyone is looking for either a beta reader or a critique partner, this is a wonderful quality for that person to have. Is she always asks me, she will say, What are you looking for from me today? Do you want me to just tell you you're amazing? Because I can do that. Do you want me to tell you we got issues and tell you what the issue, like, where are you, Elizabeth? And uh I'm like, just give it to me. And then she does. I go back and scrap the whole thing and start over again, begin again. Well, the the what's another thing that you know, tomorrow, tomorrow, and tomorrow, I've of course heard of it. I haven't read it.
SPEAKER_03:It's great.
SPEAKER_02:So the list is so long. Last week I talked with an author, Betsy Cornwell, who's been writing, she's got six YA novels that are all fantasy. And she just released her first, well, her memoir, her debut memoir. And so I said, Oh my gosh, your YA fantasy, my two daughters would absolutely love. So now I know what I'm getting them for the holidays, and they don't listen to my podcast, so it will completely be a surprise to them. So I I I mean, that's probably one of the things about the author community that I just love is how how thoughtfully people promote other authors without thought of it has to be from my same publishing house or right. There's none of that. It's just like, hey, I loved this book.
SPEAKER_00:You love the book. Absolutely. Yeah. And if it's meanable to you, yes, definitely.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for joining at 8 a.m. Thank you for being coherent. I cannot, I'm so impressed with you.
SPEAKER_01:I try. You don't what you don't realize is that I'm wearing pajama pants. This is like so me too. Okay, okay. We get each other.
SPEAKER_02:It's only five o'clock, but I am indeed already in pajamas. This is how the world works, Turner. This is how my world works.
