Ep 137: Amazon Ads for Authors Made Simple - FAQs

Amazon ads don’t have to be complicated (or eat up your entire marketing budget) to actually sell books. In this episode, I’m sharing my approach to making Amazon ads simple(r) without endless spreadsheets, confusing dashboards, or the kind of budget that makes you wonder if you should’ve stuck with free bookmarks.

Common Questions Tackled:

• Do I really need to spend $50–$100 a day like people recommend for Meta ads? Or can I start with $2–$3 and still see results?
• How do I actually know if my ads are working?
• Everyone says to use 300+ keywords. Do I actually need that many? (No, you don't.)
• Should I even bother with ads if my book listing isn’t fully optimized yet? 
• How often am I supposed to tweak campaigns?
• What’s more important: impressions and clicks, or actual conversions (aka sales)?
• Can I determine the exact words people are typing into Amazon when they find my book?

If you’ve been curious about trying Amazon ads but feel completely overwhelmed by the process, head to publishaprofitablebook.com/amazonads and see how simple this process can actually be.

🎉 NOW OPEN - AMAZON ADS FOR INDIE AUTHORS!

Access the first 6 modules of my newest course FOR FREE and see if the full course is right for you right here: 

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Chapters

• 0:00 Podcast Introduction & Amazon Ads Overview
• 9:27 Comparing Ad Platforms and Budgeting
• 17:47 Understanding Amazon's Confusing Dashboard
• 23:15 Types of Amazon Ad Campaigns
• 29:49 Troubleshooting Clicks Without Sales
• 32:15 Keyword Strategy and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:00

Hello and welcome to the Write the Damn Book Already podcast. My name is Elizabeth Lyons. I'm an author and book editor, and I help people write and publish thought-provoking, wildly entertaining books without any more overthinking, second-guessing or overwhelm than absolutely necessary. Because, let's face it, some overthinking, second-guessing and overwhelm is going to come with the territory if you're anything like me guessing, and overwhelm is going to come with the territory if you're anything like me. In short, I love books and I believe that story and shared perspective are two of the most impactful ways we connect with one another. A few things. I don't believe in gimmicks, magic bullets and swoon worthy results without context, as in. Be sure to reveal that a result took eight years or required a $30,000 investment in ads, because those details are just as important. What I believe in most as an author, the long game is the shortcut For more book writing and publishing. Tips and solutions. Visit publishaprofitablebookcom or visit me over on Instagram at Elizabeth Lyons Author. Hi everybody and welcome back. So today, you just got me today and we're going to talk about one of my favorite topics as of late Amazon ads. I've gotten a number of questions and I'm not surprised by any of them. I either have gotten them or I've heard them. These are questions that people have when they're considering running Amazon ads, but they're not really sure or they're like they've tried other ads. Maybe you've tried Google ads, or you've tried meta ads or both. Maybe you've even tried Amazon ads, I mean just for storytelling purposes.

Speaker 1: 2:35

I started running Amazon ads in, I want to say, 2017, 2018. And they were going well for a while, and then something happened and people started releasing courses and directives and all kinds of things on how to make ads work better, and, of course, their screenshots of their earnings, which were multiple, five figures if not higher, were very, very appealing, as they would probably be for most anyone, and so I started to listen to all the chatter about what I should be doing differently and before long, I had many, many campaigns running at the same time for many books. I was trying to do a lot in a very short period of time. Even though each listing or each campaign had maybe a $2 or $3 budget, once you added them all together, I was still running between $20 and $30 a day. Each of those campaigns was growing very slowly on the $2 to $3 a day budget, and I just got completely overwhelmed and frustrated.

Speaker 1: 3:52

I felt like one person very well meaning, I'm sure, by the way was telling me to do it one way, another person was telling me to do it another way, and then a third and a fourth and a fifth, and what I forgot to do in the midst of all of that was to ask myself and then assess, of the person who was giving me the information, what is their frame of reference? So do they predominantly work with fiction authors? Do they predominantly, even within that genre? Is there a sub-genre like thrillers? That was sort of when I started running Amazon ads, where a lot of the big focus was A lot of people who had written thrillers and mystery were coming out on the different boards. There was K-boards and all these different places talking about how best to run Amazon ads and, for the record, none of them was necessarily wrong. It's just that I wasn't looking at it from the standpoint of okay, that works for them, so it should work for me.

Speaker 1: 4:55

But I wasn't comparing apples and apples, so I wasn't looking at well, wait, they do mystery and I'm nonfiction. How does that translate? Does it translate? And the thing that's challenging in this space is it's very, very hard to say, if not impossible to say across the board, this approach works. It's the same with meta ads or with Google ads. It's so important to look at and make sure that you're comparing apples and apples. So even for me, running predominantly ads to nonfiction books, and having helped several authors set up and kind of analyze the data running ads to their fiction books I admittedly don't have yet nearly the data set to say, okay, I run ads to a hundred self-help books and 100 fiction romance, like let's drill down. And so in comparing those data sets even if it were 20 and 20, what I can see is that this type of ad performs better than this type of ad for this genre. We need bigger data sets and most people don't have them. So I aim to be extraordinarily transparent about what types of books I've run ads to, what my books are. My ads are the only ones over which I have full control.

Speaker 1: 6:20

But so often people will think I want to start running Amazon ads. Who can I hire to do that for me? How much is that going to cost? And once they figure out how much they're going to pay just to have someone else run the ads, they realize that it's not just a zero-sum game. It's a losing game every month, which for some people, is completely fine. So if people know, for some people is completely fine. So if authors know what their goal is and they're willing to spend extra upfront to not be in charge of their ads, to get those sales, especially if they've written nonfiction and especially if they have another product on the back end and they're planning to monetize there, that's fine. For many, many, many authors, however, that's not the case. So perhaps they have a backlist of other books and they're looking to get traction and momentum with more of their titles. Perhaps this is just their first book and they're looking to build an email list, but they don't want it to cost them $1,500 to $2,000 a month to do that.

Speaker 1: 7:21

So part of this for me is about making it simpler and being very clear, very transparent about what the numbers are, the full context of all of it. So I've grabbed a bunch of several. I've got I think I've got six questions. I don't know that I'm going to make it through all of these today, because I'm trying. I'm going to try to keep this one short, but of some of the most common concerns that I've heard and that I've had when it comes to Amazon ads and some of them, while they're all valid in some cases, I would suggest to someone not to run Amazon ads Again. In my world there is no. This will work for everyone. I just think that's. I don't know of a situation where that's true ever. We all need air to breathe, but I mean I think. But besides that, you know, okay. So the first one is I'm going to burn, like I'm going to spend all this money and I'm not going to get anything back, or how long is it going to take for me to see a return? It's such a fair question.

Speaker 1: 8:27

And in the meta ad space, so if you're running Facebook or Instagram ads, it's often suggested that you need to be spending $50 to $100 or more a day in order to rapidly collect data, and I'm not saying that's wrong. What I am saying is that that makes a lot of people really nervous, myself included. For a period of time, I've gotten a little more comfortable spending more money on meta ads. But it took me a minute. So one of the things that I love about Amazon ads is that you don't've talked about this before the Amazon ads dashboard.

Speaker 1: 9:40

So you have two dashboards. When you're logged in Well, when you're running ads, you have your regular KDP dashboard where you can see your orders and your reports and your bookshelf and all that. Then you have your advertising dashboard, which is sort of a subset of your KDP dashboard dashboard, which is sort of a subset of your KDP dashboard. These two sets of data don't equal each other almost ever. So I can log in right now to my KDP dashboard and see it might say that I have sold six books today and maybe it's three different books. I'm just going to try to make this easy. Three books have each sold two copies today. Great. I go over to my Amazon ads dashboard and it will say I have no sales or it will say I have two sales.

Speaker 1: 10:32

One of the biggest challenges with Amazon ads and it's what frustrated me before I figured out a way it's not the perfect way, but it's pretty good in my experience to better track ads better than using their dashboard is that there is no. With meta ads as an example, instagram, facebook ads. There are third-party tracking software platforms that you can use to better correlate your sales with an ad, to just make it really simple to be able to say oh, this is where the sale came from. It came from this ad. So when we're selling our books on Amazon, there are a couple of things we don't know. We don't know who bought it. We don't have access to that data, to that customer data that's proprietary to Amazon. They don't share it with us, understandably. So unless someone buys your book off of your website, you don't know who bought it.

Speaker 1: 11:28

The other challenge is that their tracking is at least their reporting I'm guessing that their and so there's also a delay. So if someone clicks on your ad on a Monday and they order your book and it's a paperback or a hardback version and it has to print on demand and then ship, it will not show up in your orders until at least two days usually two days later, between one and three or four days later, depending on their shipping time but it will show up theoretically in your ads platform as having sold that day. Sometimes the sales don't even show up in the ad platform. So we have to do a bit of guessing. As to educated guessing, like intelligent, strategic guessing, it's not just throw it out there and hope that we were somewhere in the mark. There are ways to be intentional and strategic about the guessing that we're doing, but we have to do that. That is much more comfortable to do when you are spending a maximum of $2 or $3 a day than when you're spending $50 to $100 a day and you're just watching the dollars just drain. So that's one of the biggest reasons I love Amazon ads is you can, in your mind, think, okay, this month I'm going to budget $60, $2 a day and I'm just going to let it go Like I'm just going to act as though I'm not going to make any sales off that $60. And that's less money in most cases than you're going to spend, certainly with a publicist or with meta ads or Google ads, toward your book. So, yes, there's no guarantee with ads ever, but there are lesser levels of risks and Amazon does offer that, which I personally am a huge proponent of and highly value.

Speaker 1: 13:28

When I start an ad campaign now, I start at $10 a day. You don't have to do that when I started back. So I started in like 2017, 2018, got very overwhelmed, kind of quit for a while with the ads, came back in in like 2022, and then really started ramping up around 2023. And when I did that, I was going at two to $3 a day because I was very I was not only skeptical, I was cynical and I was being very conservative in response. And so as I started to get a more, more comfortable with it and see what was happening and what wasn't happening and what was working and what wasn't working, with air quotes around the working, I got more comfortable starting my ads at a higher dollar amount. That being said, I have one campaign. It's my most successful campaign right now. It's for write the damn book already, which is my most recent book, and I have that set at $10 a day and there are still. It's been running for nine or 10 months, that campaign. I mean with some variations, there are still, I'd say, the majority of days. It doesn't even spend my whole $10.

Speaker 1: 14:38

It's hard to get Amazon to spend your money, which I'm not mad about either. Sometimes I wish there were more options to have them spend. But if people aren't clicking, you only pay with Amazon ads when someone clicks on your ad. So if people aren't clicking on your ad, it's only happening for one of two reasons Either they're seeing it, but it's not resonating. It's not what they were looking for. That's a you problem. That's a your book listing problem. Or you're not getting enough impressions to begin with. If your book isn't seen, it can't be clicked on. That's also a you problem. So that's good because you have control over fixing those issues.

Speaker 1: 15:21

So the idea of, well, if I just started $100 a day, can I really get more traction? Probably not, because, amazon, you got to build up the impressions first and then from there are people going to be clicking enough to generate. It's not just you don't just pay for the number of impressions, like you do with meta ads. You're paying when people click, so we need to make those clicks count. All right, so I love this one. Where do I even start? There's auto manual ASIN. What is an ASIN Like? Okay, there are all different types of ads you can run on Amazon and keep in mind that the Amazon ads platform is not just for authors, it's also for people who are selling all manner of things shoes and purses, and eyelash extensions and whatever. So with that in mind, it's understandable why the ads the back, like the dashboard, is so confusing, because whether you're setting up a campaign or moderating one, you're looking at the same options as far as data analysis that all of these other B2C people are looking at who aren't selling books.

Speaker 1: 16:33

A lot of it doesn't apply in the book selling space. It's irrelevant, which is great because you can just ignore it. However, in the book selling space, there are multiple ways that you can run a campaign. You can run a keyword campaign. You can run a category campaign all manual, meaning that you're telling Amazon these are the keywords that I want you to show the book for, these are the categories, these are the products I want you to match to. And then there are also automatic campaigns where Amazon determines, based on their best guess, where your book will best be received. It can be hella confusing to even know what all those mean, when to use them, how to best use them, et cetera, and so people just shut down Me too.

Speaker 1: 17:23

My solution to that is start very simply Again, start with your two to three dollars a day. Do a manual keyword campaign. This is not, by the way, the most heavily recommended option. Most people who run Amazon ads specifically for books, but for anything will recommend that you start with an auto campaign and that you use that campaign to see, like you let Amazon do the heavy lifting for you, to see what keywords people like, and then you move the successful keywords into a manual campaign later. I have not found that to be a successful approach, with one exception, and that is when your keyword campaigns are not generating any or many impressions. Your categories campaign is not generating many or any impressions, then it's like a Hail Mary to the auto campaign. The challenge is that even with an auto campaign, if you don't have your listing optimized, with keywords, categories and your description, the auto campaign won't matter because Amazon doesn't know.

Speaker 1: 18:38

It's sort of like taking a box, a cardboard box, into Target. Let's say you're the delivery, you're the stock I don't know who you are. You're UPS, I don't know, and you're bringing all the stock to the warehouse at Target. If you walk into the warehouse with a box, just a cardboard box, no label on it, no writing on the side of it, nothing, and you hand it to the person who's in charge of putting it in the warehouse, that person's going to be like I don't know, like put it in shoes or put it in makeup or what do I do? That's exactly what's happening when you don't have your keywords and your categories and your book description well optimized so that, at a bare minimum, when the guy walks in to the Target warehouse, the person receiving the package knows well it's shoes.

Speaker 1: 19:31

I don't know if they're flip flops or heels or boots, but I do know they're shoes. Ideally they know they're shoes. They're women's shoes, they're heels and they're black. That's ideal. Heels and they're black, that's ideal. That allows them to put it. Not only put it where it needs to go, but when a customer comes in and says I'm looking for women's black heels, they go oh, aisle seven. Like here are three choices pick one, and then she picks one, and then what she picks will often come down. There are all kinds of different things.

Speaker 1: 20:04

Now we're getting into the weeds. As you know, I'm prone to do so. Don't get overwhelmed, please with oh my God, do I do a keyword category auto manual. Just start with keywords. And well, don't even start with keywords. Start with optimizing your listing, which is the first thing that I it's literally the first entire module of Amazon Ads for indie authors is how to optimize your listing, because if you don't, it's not the magic bullet. But without that in place, imagine that you're essentially walking into the target warehouse with a box with no writing on the outside Okay, I have clicks.

Speaker 1: 20:47

I've gotten a lot of clicks, but haven't gotten any sales. What's going on? What's wrong? Number one you don't know that you have. Do you know for sure that you haven't gotten any sales, or is it just in the reporting it says no sales? Are you looking at your orders? Has your number of orders increased at all from before you were running ads? So, with right that, and one of the things that I recommend, and this is in the I have this unbelievable spreadsheet. That's simple, but behind the scenes it's not simple because all the formulas are baked into it already in this ads course. But what if your book has been out for a while? What I have you do, what I suggest that you do, is note your sales from the previous four months prior to starting to run ads, because you do want to be able to compare. So for Write the Damn Book Already.

Speaker 1: 21:35

My most recent book I was selling before ads between zero, really between zero and two copies per month. That's it. I rarely talk about the book anywhere on social media or anything. I'm busy doing this kind of thing, so I let my author side. Sadly, it takes the brunt of this, but it was good because it gave me a really good benchmark. So I knew I was selling between zero and two copies per month for the months prior to running the ads. Once I started running the ads and really got them going, after about three months my sales went up to 83 per month. I don't know what else to attribute that to, besides making sure that my listing was fully optimized, which it was pretty good to begin with. I didn't make any major tweaks to it but because I just knew how to do that, when I was loading the book initially and then I ran ads and I kept looking at the ads and tweaking them and I don't tweak my Amazon ads every day, I probably tweak them every two to three weeks. Well, there's a whole process to this, but it's sort of if you keep moving.

Speaker 1: 22:41

If we go back to the warehouse analogy, let's use it. Here's an analogy that's really good. Have you ever gone into the grocery store or Target and nothing is where it's supposed to be? One time I went into Sprouts. We have this local. It's like a small, healthy grocery store here called Sprouts. I'm in Arizona and I went in and I kid you not, over the weekend they had completely flipped the store, with the exception they didn't move like the whole meat counter, but with the exception of that, all of the aisles that were on the right-hand side of the store, all of those contents were on the left and vice versa. I was so lost. I was like this is, and I understand sort of why they do it because they don't want you to just go to the same place in the store every time and get your same seven items. This is why I now order my groceries and pick them up, because it saves me from all this impulse shopping when I'm walking by the Oreos because I thought that's where the peanut butter was gonna be, and then I'm like, oh my God, maybe I want some Oreos and all of a sudden my grocery bill is $150 higher, hundred and fifty dollars higher than it has ever been or should be. But I digress.

Speaker 1: 23:47

It's the same with Amazon ads. If you're changing your keywords in your listing in your ads, if you're changing all of that every day or two days or three days, it's the. The back end of the Amazon system is like wait a minute. Like last week, peanut butter was here and now, and now it's eyelash extension. Why am I talking about eyelash extensions a lot today? I don't anyway. It's the same thing. So we want to be careful about how often we change them, and that's a good thing, you know why? Because it means you don't have to be in there every day tweaking and analyzing. It's like an every two to three week thing.

Speaker 1: 24:28

So, number one is the book really not selling? So you say you're getting clicks but you're not getting purchases. Is that really the case? Number two there's a way that you can go in and see which searches what the customer is actually searching. That's generating a click. Is it relevant? Does it even make sense that Amazon is showing your book for that click? If the user is searching fiction, world War II romance and you've written a rom-com from 2025, why is your book showing up there as an option, as an impression? It's almost certainly got something to do with your keywords, your categories and your book description, and it's misleading customers, which, for the record, amazon doesn't like. So it's very it's I'm going to go with impossible to try to game the Amazon system Like, just don't. It's much smarter than any of us.

Speaker 1: 25:32

So, thinking well, if they bought this thing, they might maybe like this. Like, if they're reading rom-com about something that went on in England, maybe they'd also like to buy my book about how to garden because maybe they like roses, like that is a bridge too far and it's misleading, and Amazon sees it as misleading, and then you end up getting penalized for that. So there are some simple. There's a more complicated way to explain why things might not be working, but the fix for it is simple, which does not mean that the next day you're going to make a million dollars in book sales, because you're not, but it's not. The fix is almost never as complicated as the problem that you're trying to fix. So that's a great thing, okay. Last question I'll do today, I'll do another one of these and send your questions over like, dm them to me on Instagram, email them to me, elizabeth at Elizabeth lionscom, and I'll just keep doing these.

Speaker 1: 26:39

I read somewhere that I need 300 plus keywords in order to have a successful campaign and that I need to have exact and phrase. So that's really 600 keywords, just no. The answer is no. This was one of the things that made me quit back, however, many years ago, because again back then and some people will still say you should start with a thousand keywords, and I'm not here to say they're wrong that may very well work with the genre, the budget that I don't want. We'd have to get the context For myself. Who's just? I'm just an indie author with a few books and I'm helping people who have a few books or one book Most of the people with whom I work have one book and the idea of having to come up with 300 keywords not only come up with them, but then track them to figure out what's getting impressions, what are getting clicks that made me quit.

Speaker 1: 27:39

You should have seen my spreadsheet. Just no, I think I went through an entire bag of chocolate chips one night just trying to analyze this spreadsheet. I was like stress eating and then I put my hand in the bag and they were gone. It was awful. So my recommendation for the record is to start with between 30 and 40. If you do your keyword research effectively and it will take you a couple of hours, so set a couple of hours aside. It's honestly not hard. It's just takes a minute to get it all out there.

Speaker 1: 28:10

If you can narrow your list down to between 30 and 50, and I'd prefer 30 and 40, keywords that have high search traffic. So you want somewhat niche keywords. So the words romance, self-help niche keywords. So the words romance, self-help, personal growth. Those are women's health, those are way too broad, like way too broad. That's like saying my book is somewhere in Target. You want to be able to say my book or my product is in this section. Ideally you want to be able to say it's in this aisle. And I apologize if my Target reference is offensive at this point, because I do realize that Target has left a lot of people's vernacular and for many years it was my magic kingdom and I loved it there so much and I'm rarely in there anymore, which is not to say anything negative about Target.

Speaker 1: 29:01

Substitute whatever store you want. Please don't take me down over my mention of Target, target, walmart, safeway, wherever you shop, any store. If you can say, oh, that's in this section, you've made a step in the right direction. If you can say it's in this aisle, you've gotten even better. And if you can say it's halfway down on the right-hand side of aisle 17, that's where we're trying to get with it On row three, from the bottom in the middle, like that's what we're trying to get with this, and so they don't have to be quite and it'll be challenging, by the way, at the beginning to have them be quite that specific. That's something that you hone over time as you see what people are searching specifically. I'll give you an example so that it hopefully helps illustrate this a little bit better.

Speaker 1: 29:51

For write the damn book. Already one of my best keywords is write a book. As you can imagine, it's also a keyword on which I lose money. I think Not overall, but some days I actually I make enough money from the keyword that I don't get rid of it. The reason I get I get far more impressions than clicks with that keyword because when people type in write a book they might be thinking like write a children's book or write a romance, write a romcom, write a historical fiction, and then so they get the impression shows up, but then they see the title of the book. They realize that's not about writing a children's book or not about writing historical fiction, so they don't click on it. So I do get a lot of impressions with lower clicks and even from people who do click on it, it's not a one, it's certainly not a one-to-one ratio of the number of people who click on it with a number of people who purchase it.

Speaker 1: 30:48

Now, if we go to a keyword like writing a memoir my click through, my conversion rate on writing a memoir is significantly higher than it is on write a book. That's the stat we want to look at. Is the conversion rate, not even the click rate? If you have a really high click rate on something and you're spending a lot of money on it but it's not converting, that's a problem that we want to look at. But for me, I haven't pulled that keyword down because I still get a large number of people for whom, again, when they see the ad, they know it's not for them, they don't click on it. But when they see it and they recognize that it's about writing nonfiction or memoir, they do click and they often convert.

Speaker 1: 31:32

So but having 300 to 500 keywords, I just can't even personally imagine the overwhelm. Well, I can imagine it because I lived it. I don't suggest it. So, to answer that concern, you can do it that way. I don't teach it that way, I don't do it that way and I would give you some level of reassurance that in order to have a successful Amazon ads campaign, you can do that with I mean honestly you could do it with as few as 10 keywords, especially if they're very targeted, if you're very clear about what your ideal reader is searching for, and the more you run ads, the clearer you get about that because, again, you can see the data. So I hope this was helpful. Again, I'll do this again and again and again.

Speaker 1: 32:28

If you have more questions about if you're running ads and you've got questions about what's not working, or if you've been thinking about it but there's something that's making you think I don't want to like that, I mean, if you've been thinking about it but there's something that's making you think I don't want to like that. I mean, if you just don't want to, don't want to, I'm never, I'm not going to be the girl who's like you should or you have to or you must or you need to. But if you've been thinking I'd kind of like to however, I'm afraid of this or I'm concerned about that or I don't really like data then shoot me the question and let's see if we can make it feel a little bit better, to where perhaps you're comfortable giving it a try for a month or two and just seeing what happens, because the worst thing that can happen is you say this isn't for me and you turn them off and you try something different. The alternative is you go from zero to two books a month to 83 on average a month, and that brings you great joy. Is it going to fund your mansion in Bora Bora? No, I don't think it will, but it does what most of us as authors, regardless of the genre that we've written, most want to do, which is share the message with someone else and then let it impact them in whatever way it does and go from there.

Speaker 1: 33:49

And certainly if you have a product or service on the back end of your book like I do with Write the Damn Book already, it is a great, great way to introduce yourself and your philosophy and your product or service just who you are and what you're about and how you feel about the topic about which you're speaking to a wider audience and let it go from there. And then many times, most times, the ROI comes on the backend of that, but at least you're not $1,500 to $2,000 a month out of pocket just to have someone else running the ads for you, because truly it's not necessary and it's not nearly as overwhelming. Is it like one, two, three? No, but nothing is. That being said, it's not nearly as overwhelming.

Speaker 1: 34:36

If you're just willing to take it like step one, we're going to do this Step two. We're going to do this and then kind of just follow those directions on through Ask questions when you need to and just keep going. So I have the link to the course in the episode notes. It's also over on my website at publishaprofitablebookcom. Forward slash Amazon ads. It's still in early bird pricing for lifetime access.

Speaker 1: 35:02

So if it's something that feels like it would be a good fit for you, I would love it If you'd check it out. And someone messaged me last week and said I send out a message about every I don't know I think it's after eight or nine days that someone's been in the course saying hey, how's it going? Do you have any questions? Are you stuck? How can I help? And someone responded and she said this is such a breath of fresh air, and so I don't remember the exact word she used, but it was something about not overwhelming. And I said that makes me so, so, so happy, because that was the goal the entire time. But regardless, keep the questions coming and we'll be back next week with another interview. Talk to you then.