Ep 136: Writing a Novel While Raising Kids with Jill Beissel

Writers dream of the day they’ll hold their finished book, but few warn you about how intense the editing phase can be. In this episode, debut novelist Jill Beissel gets real about the messy, magical process of turning a rough draft into a polished novel readers will love.

Jill’s upcoming book, Glitter and Gold (out October 7!), went through what she calls “color-coded chaos”—a DIY system using highlighters, sticky notes, and sheer persistence to untangle plot issues and deepen character arcs.

She also shares what it’s like to write while raising two young kids and working full-time. Some nights she wrote 500 words, others just 50, but she kept showing up. Her writing sprints, “progress over perfection” mindset, and decision to celebrate any words written (instead of beating herself up for what she didn’t write) are what more of us need to hear.

We talk about dual timelines, beta readers, and why sometimes, the bravest thing a writer can do is shelve a manuscript after 100+ rejections and start fresh. 

And if you’re near Phoenix, join her for the launch of Glitter and Gold at Changing Hands Bookstore on October 17. Come for the celebration and stay for the reminder that persistence and patience really do pay off.

🎉 NOW OPEN - AMAZON ADS FOR INDIE AUTHORS!

Get lifetime access and early-bird pricing right here: https://www.publishaprofitablebook.com/amazonads

Get the first draft of your nonfiction or memoir written in 33 days!

...even if you don't have a cabin in the wilderness, 4 uninterrupted hours a day to write, or confidence that you're a "real" writer. No overwhelm, no confusion. Just simple, actionable steps.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcoming Jill Beisel and Her Debut
• 7:03 The Color-Coded Editing Process
• 11:45 Navigating Developmental Edits
• 17:57 Writing Process and Finding Time
• 24:15 Dual Timelines and Story Structure
• 26:35 Beta Readers and Future Projects
• 30:19 Book Launch and Current Reads

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:23

Hi everybody and welcome back. All right. I am very excited today to have my friend, jill Beisel, whose debut novel, glitter and Gold, comes out October 7th, which is very easy for me to remember because it's my twins' 24th birthday, even though that is incredibly, that is wild to say. But, jill, here's my biggest memory of Jill. Well, there's two. Well, I say as though I'm not looking right at you and I am here's my biggest memory of you, jill. There are two. Number one is and actually they were both on the same day.

Speaker 1: 1:59

Okay, so we had met to like write together. Yes, because, as everyone now knows, I am writing this novel that may never come to fruition. And so you were one of the first people to live in that hell with me, as I sat there and just stared at the screen like what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? What do I do? And so you had turned me on to this software. I think it Plotter. Is that what it was? Yeah, right. Me on to this software. I think it Plotter, is that what it was? Yeah, right.

Speaker 1: 2:30

And then I spent the next I don't know 45 minutes it probably felt like 10 hours to you, being like, well, do I do this? And then do I like, how do I use Plotter correctly? And then I plotted the whole thing in Plotter and I never opened Plotter again. Did I ever tell you that? You did not. I never opened Plotter again, nope. But the other thing from that day that was even more memorable, that I want to ask you about, because I'm on this editing kick right now. Not, I'm on an let's talk about editing kick. That's the kick I'm on Great. You pulled out this tome, it felt like, because it was your novel fully printed. So how many pages was it fully printed? Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2: 3:10

I would say probably, you know at least 350.

Speaker 1: 3:16

Right, right, exactly. And these are eight and a half by 11. So, and was it double spaced? Just so everyone can have it For my sanity, okay, so double spaced, or one and a half, whatever Right. And you pulled this out and you set it on the table and I just stared at it and I was so excited and overwhelmed. I was excited as an editor and I was overwhelmed as an author because you had it all. Can we just, can you just talk about what was going on with this? It was, it had just come back. From what round of edits?

Speaker 2: 3:50

going on with this. It had just come back from what round of edits? Okay, so I had stunned Liz here with this giant thick printout of my manuscript after my dev edits. So it's like you're fixing all the bones and the scaffolding. And so I decided to embark on a color-coded system, which is so not like me. Actually. Really I'm pretty type B, go with the flow, but with this I was like this is my first debut novel, I'm going to do it this way. And so I color-coded for where sections needed character work or setting or interiority. Another color was, you know, plot hole, and so I just kind of it. It helped me just kind of filter and make sense of everything, and I kind of did that advice of bird by bird. You know, you just go one page, one, post it at a time. So that's how it works.

Speaker 1: 4:47

Well, the thing and I found myself thinking about this well, I think about it all the time when I'm editing, but I talk about it somewhat regularly the thought I think for many first-time authors, regardless of genre, is that it's 95% writing, 5% editing. And I tend to to really encourage and the more I talk to authors who have been through the process because I've been through the process multiple times but I want to get other people's perspective as well it's really more like 50, 50 if not 40, 60, meaning 40 writing, 60 editing, like there's so much that happens in the editing and it can take a while. And I feel like if authors again, especially first time, because once you've done it then you know to expect it from that point, but if our mindset can be more okay, we're just moving into phase two, which is as long problem, maybe as long, because some people take years and years and years to write the book. But it's as what word would you use?

Speaker 2: 5:53

Like it's as maybe as layered or, as you know, as full I'm not quite sure what the word is, but yeah, but do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1: 6:09

So it's not just okay, change this word. Oh, this grammar's off. Let's add a comma here instead of a period like, or a semicolon, let's. It's not just that simple, and it's certainly not as simple as well. I'm just going to hand this over to my editor and then he or she is going to tell me not only tell me what's wrong, but tell me what to do. And sometimes the assumption is and do it for me, right? So that is not the case at all, not the case. So when you got your dev edits back, how did you receive those? Was it Right?

Speaker 2: 6:51

So it's like quite a lengthy, you know response. That's extremely helpful, but I think there's that misconception that they're going to tell you how to fix it, and that is certainly not the case, and I think that's that's a good thing, because then it's you know it's still coming from you. They're not planting those seeds of oh yeah, I should go in this particular direction. You know you're still coming from you. They're not planting those seeds of oh yeah, I should go in this particular direction. You know you're still. They're posing the questions. They're maybe having a couple you know suggestions, but it's a lot less prescriptive than I had expected and so it's more just directional and it's like, okay, let's see what you do with this. And it directional and it's like, okay, let's see what you do with this. And it was like a 10-page letter so to speak.

Speaker 1: 7:31

So it was a step. Was it chapter by chapter or was it kind of overall? Here are my moments of what the hell? Essentially, how did your editor lay it out.

Speaker 2: 7:44

I would say it was the latter. It was more overarching. You know, maybe there was a specific scene or two that asked for like hey, maybe take this in a different direction or finesse that. But yeah, more overarching, yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:03

More overarching. So when you got it all back and you opened it in, I assume email yes.

Speaker 2: 8:20

What was your initial reaction? But I highly encourage writers to just sit with it. Sit with it a couple days a week, whatever you need to kind of get over that initial shock, that initial. You know writers, we have tender hearts, sink in and know that it's not personal and I think some of my background. I'm good at taking feedback. I've developed a thick skin in the different creative professions I've had over the years. But I would absolutely recommend just sit with it and then you go back and you kind of take a deep breath and you're like okay, we're going to tackle this one by one. Take a deep breath and you're like okay, we're going to tackle this one by one.

Speaker 1: 9:09

Yeah Well, and I think that's such a great piece of advice and it's one that I've had for years when I'm working with people is read, maybe read through the editorial summary, have a look at the manuscript if that's also marked up at all and then shut it down for 24, 48, 72, 96, whatever hours. Um, I have one author I'm working with right now and I sent the edits back to her and then she said I'm leaving for two weeks on vacation and I said awesome, that is perfect, Like read, read my questions and my thoughts and then, over the vacation, without any pressure, just let that kind of sink in. Did you feel at all defensive? Were there moments when you read the feedback and you felt defensive? How did you open yourself up to? You know, we're in partnership is kind of. What I think is so important about editing is that your goal and your editor's goal is ideally the same, which is just to make the book better. Were there any areas where you felt like you had to push back?

Speaker 2: 10:15

You know, what I don't think in the initial developmental feedback I felt defensive in any way. I felt like, okay, they know what they're doing, they know the market and any little you know. Feelings that might have come up were more hey, if something you know in the inline comments doesn't feel right, then you know you respond back and you have just kind of a conversation about it and you kind of defend what you're feeling about it. But I would say there were very few of those places. Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:06

So so can we talk about the writing process? Absolutely, because this is a big book, yes, and it's your first one. So what is your unique process for writing? I remember the last time where were we Daydreamer, I think in downtown, and I was like do you write every day? How many minutes it's really switching from nonfiction to fiction. I might as well just be starting all over. I feel like this is a completely different experience. So what is, what was your process? Or what is it like? How did it evolve? Did it evolve over?

Speaker 2: 11:45

Yes, absolutely. My process, I would say, is definitely not the same now as it was when I wrote Glitter and Gold. For Glitter and Gold, you know, I was working full time and parent to two little kids, and so I would find hours after they went to bed maybe 8 to 10, and I'm falling asleep on my laptop and just trying to not be super hard on myself, give myself grace if it was just twice a week like that and then kind of building up the habits here and there. I think I did read the Save the Cat. I definitely did some note cards with kind of drafting out.

Speaker 2: 12:31

Just I'm not necessarily a plotter, but I kind of wanted to know where I was going with it. I like to. The pantser part of me is that I'll deviate from that path quite a few times. Yeah, so I would say that was the initial place, because if I was going to be hard on myself for skipping a day or two, then I know I would just not open it or not finish. And this is an evolution in the process and what works for me. And I even had a friend introduce me to writing sprints. I don't do, or I never did, nanowrimo, but I dropped in on one of their writing sprints. That was a local group here and it was so great because it kind of also helped me let go of, you know, any sort of writing imperfections, because I in my background I tend to want to edit and everything, so edit as I go. So that was great and so I was able to get bigger chunks done.

Speaker 1: 13:41

And then I do writing sprints with my critique group as well, so okay, yeah, well, and I so really interesting and good point about your, your profession, because it's often so challenging. Was it copywriting? Is that what you were doing for? Okay, for a major national corporation? And it's interesting when people have a writing profession. So journalism, copywriting, editing anything in that milieu. My God, did I just use the word milieu? Did I use it correctly? I think you did. I don't know. We're going to look that up later. Anyway, I don't know where it came from. It just came to me to switch into the writing mode because you have to turn off that editing, whatever that part of your brain is. That is, see, I can think of milieu, but I cannot think of the word that I'm trying to think of. What is the word Jill, where you're assessing your Analytical Thank you. What is happening? Turn off your analytical brain and be able to. So did you find that? That was a challenge?

Speaker 2: 14:51

I would say yeah, it's definitely a challenge that I, because in my profession there would be like 10 different stakeholders who would all have an opinion about something that I wrote, and so I found myself needing to kind of get in touch with my inner stakeholder or approver and be like no, it's not, you know, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks at this stage it's like just move forward with it and you can fix it.

Speaker 2: 15:21

Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. At this stage it's like just move forward with it and you can fix it later.

Speaker 1: 15:24

So yeah, so I'm curious, and this is just full honesty, and maybe it's because I'm, you know, my kids are older and I'm looking for any excuse to go to bed and turn on Netflix because I didn't have it for so long. I feel like, because I didn't have it for so long, I feel like. But when that 8 to 10 pm time hits and you say, okay, this is my time because the kids are now in bed, what was it about getting the book done before? You had a deal that compelled you on some nights to say, tonight I'm going to write as opposed to I'm going to bed, I'm turning on couples therapy, I'm, you know, whatever. That's clearly right now my obsession. But what was that pull for you, that pull for?

Speaker 2: 16:12

me. I think it, you know, as maybe cheesy as it sounds, I, you know, I'd always wanted to be a writer since I was a little kid and you know, it was kind of like, okay, let's get back in touch with that. And also there was a sense of you know, cause I started during COVID. So there was that sense of escapism and feeling normal. But I really just, I don't know. The story just stuck in my head and I was like, well, it's just going to bother me if I don't write it. You know, I just I would hold onto that feeling of how I felt each time when I sat at the computer and then, even if I got maybe 50 words down, or maybe if I got a session with 500, it just felt so good to get that much farther. So it was chasing that feeling too.

Speaker 1: 17:08

Okay, yeah, yeah. So was there any portion of the book that was, just, for lack of a better word, hard?

Speaker 2: 17:18

Yes, absolutely. So I did at one point hire a developmental editor even before I got that like developmental feedback from my publisher and God. So I was like, okay, sure, I'd love to do this for my first. Yes, yeah. So she laid out really great reasons that helped just contextualize the relationships of the characters, and so I felt like it was a good direction. I was like, all right, you know, just pull my hair back and be like, okay, let's do it.

Speaker 1: 18:05

So yeah, so that was. So were you taking the original material and converting it into dual timelines, or?

Speaker 2: 18:13

Yes, so there was just a single timeline and so she suggested going back and adding how these, how this kind of relationship with these characters kind of came to be, in order to kind of enhance that part with the big adventure.

Speaker 1: 18:29

So cause I? I don't have it yet, obviously cause it's not out yet. Um, and you ran out of arcs, but the so does it go? Present past, present past, present past, or how do?

Speaker 2: 18:40

you okay? Yes, for the most part, I would say for the first, at least for the first half. And you know, there might be a couple of ones that have a past past or a present present, but for most, for the most part, it rotates. And then we do just present timeline to take it to the next Okay, question, like, I guess, craft question about present past.

Speaker 1: 19:05

How did you work with keeping the pacing going? Sometimes, when I'm watching on TV, of course, something that's going present past present past For me, subjectively right the pacing is off sometimes because I'm like, oh my God, I don't want to go. I actually am realizing lately and in this moment that I don't prefer stories that start at the present, like someone dying or dead, if we're talking about a murder mystery type thing, a thriller, and then they go three years ago and they take you all the way back because I already know the person has died. So it's like I don't really, but again, that's. That's not saying that that's good, bad, right or wrong. That's just my preference as a, as a you know, I guess a watcher, but as a reader, I'm trying to think of the last book that I read that was dual timeline. How did you handle that to make sure that it didn't feel? Were there any moments where you felt like, oh God, now I got to go backward again?

Speaker 2: 20:42

Yeah, you do have to kind of find like those action moments and you know, have something. You know, in my case that was very action and suspense oriented in both timelines in order to keep the reader going. And I would say also in terms of pacing, I'm always just looking for okay, I want to try to answer a question and then plant a new question to make them keep going.

Speaker 1: 21:13

Yeah, it's kind of that like you have a problem, then you have a solution, and then you have another problem, and then you have another solution, and so it just keeps the pacing and the trajectory moving forward without did you know how it ended from early on.

Speaker 2: 21:29

I did know how it ended and I I'd say, for the most part I tend to know, like, where I want to get. I just don't know always how I'm going to get there.

Speaker 1: 21:39

But yes, okay, do you get there through writing it?

Speaker 2: 21:57

experiment like okay, well, what if I write it this way? And then I kind of try to pose to myself another question and kind of do in my head and sometimes write the choose your own adventure, Somebody else said that, and I can't remember who, because I was thinking, oh my gosh, I think we talked about this.

Speaker 1: 22:08

But now I'm thinking it wasn't you and I who talked about it. It was I'll have to go back and look, but it was a few episodes ago and she said that someone had made that suggestion to her, like just write it both ways and see. My initial response was that feels like a lot of extra work, which it's so funny to put myself in both roles, because as an editor, I'm like okay, yeah, that's a little extra, and as an author, I'm like I don't want to.

Speaker 2: 22:37

Yeah, you know it is hard to kind of get over that mental block. Oh, this is so much extra work. But I think you know my first book that I wrote and I queried probably a hundred times and it, you know, got some great feedback but never went anywhere. Although I never regret doing that work, it was, I call it, like my own DIY MFA. So I think that it all helps inform how you, how you create, how you brainstorm. I think it all, none of it is wasted.

Speaker 1: 23:15

So yeah, right. So where is that book now? Did you just find? How did you determine or decide? Okay, it's, I'm going to just do something different. I'm going to put this aside.

Speaker 2: 23:26

Yeah, it was hard. It's, you know, tucked in a drawer and in a file on my computer and I don't know if it'll ever see the light of day. I would definitely. There's so much I would do different with that particular story. But I, you know, I queried probably a hundred or close to, or a little over that many agents. I got some full requests, I got several partials, but it just wasn't what the market wanted and I was. I wanted to distract myself and I reminded myself you know, it's about, it's about the journey. You love this. So let's just keep going, let's move on and do something different.

Speaker 1: 24:11

There we go, yeah. So what are you working on now?

Speaker 2: 24:15

So I just got all of the beta feedback in from my second one that I'm working on, which is kind of a big little lies meets bad sisters on a road trip.

Speaker 1: 24:32

I love it. How do you do beta readers Talk to me about your beta reader process.

Speaker 2: 24:39

Well, this one was very informal and I asked my Instagram friends hey, anyone want to beta read? And the writing community is so generous and lovely and sometimes some unexpected friendly faces from my past were like hey, you know. So I picked a couple of people who were interested, and then also writers that I knew, and so, yeah, I've got a lot of great feedback to dive into for the fall on that second one. And then, while I was waiting for beta feedback, I started another crazy idea Just drafting, because when you've got the creative flow going, you want to just yeah, you don't want to stop, that's for sure.

Speaker 1: 25:27

How many beta readers did you have, or do you have?

Speaker 2: 25:30

Probably too many, okay, so give me a number. I would say there was like maybe seven, oh, okay, you know why do you feel like it's too many? I think because after I did it, I read somewhere probably four or something, five yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:48

Yes. So for some reason I was expecting you to say like 20. Oh, that's why I said oh when you said seven. But I can see if you get seven different. And do you prompt them with questions? I do, or do you just?

Speaker 2: 26:02

okay, yes, I kind of give them like general overarching and I never want it to feel daunting for a beta reader to like answer a bunch of things or do inline comments. A lot of them just automatically do, which I was so grateful and felt so lucky that they did that. But yeah, so I gave them like a bulleted list of questions to kind of help with, like does anything, is the pacing good? Does any character feel like not believable, et cetera.

Speaker 1: 26:35

Did you color code the responses?

Speaker 2: 26:38

I might. You know I still have to. It's like I have all the feedback and now I need to figure out a way to synthesize it all and have figure out what the common threads are, which I'm seeing some which is kind of what you want, like, okay, you know, if half of them said this, then I need to take a closer look at this particular area Exactly.

Speaker 1: 27:01

Exactly what are you excited about when it comes to the launching and the marketing of Glitter and Gold? Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2: 27:09

Well, marketing, it's so funny. I've worked in marketing but I'm like ugh, marketing, I just want to write. So you know I love, but I love doing stuff like this, like talking to people about books who want to talk about books. It makes me excited. I let's see. What am I looking forward to? Just kind of having that like kind of a tour, or like doing a tour. I'm reaching out like locally and you know the book takes place in arizona, so I'd like to hit the you know arizona indie bookstores and everything yeah, when's changing hand?

Speaker 1: 27:49

you said the 17th yes at changing hands. Is that in the tempe or the phoenix?

Speaker 2: 27:54

Phoenix location. Okay, it's October 17th, so yeah, I'm excited about that. And just talking to whoever would love to talk about books and writing and craft, yeah, I think that's the most exciting and connecting with readers and other writers. So last question I always ask what are you reading right now, are you?

Speaker 1: 28:13

reading anything right now? Are you writing everything Right? Trying last question, I always ask what are you? What are you reading right now? Are you reading anything right now? Are you writing everything?

Speaker 2: 28:21

Trying to read. I know I wish there were more hours in the day for it. Um, I I'm kind of I'm so behind on my TBR and I'm a mood reader, so I finally wait. What does?

Speaker 1: 28:32

that mean A mood reader to you.

Speaker 2: 28:35

I'm like you know if you're in the romance or I feel like, oh okay, yeah. So I um, yeah, a couple of years behind I'm reading the invisible life of Addie LaRue, Finally, yes, so beautiful, well-written, just incredible. So I'm sure most people are, um, have already caught up to that. I'm kind of behind.

Speaker 1: 28:59

I haven't, so I'll just add that you said my years long. It's true. I feel like I'm years behind in some cases, I know.

Speaker 2: 29:07

And sometimes you're just kind of challenging, pluck it out and like, okay, I'm going to read this and then I also kind of something. And then I also kind of something I try to like push myself out of my comfort zone a bit and I started the on audio Women who Run With Wolves I think it's called by Dr Clarissa Pinkola Estes. Yes, and it's just a really fascinating the way she uses storytelling from like myths and tale to kind of get into the psychology of, you know, women, modern culture.

Speaker 1: 29:43

So are you usually reading more than one at once or are you a one at a time reader?

Speaker 2: 29:49

I would say I I usually have like a physical book and then audio because you know, just being busy and wanting to multitask and read all the things and absorb all the things you know.

Speaker 1: 30:03

so yeah, and then again, with not enough hours in the day Exactly so or days in the year, my God, even though the days right now us both being in Arizona feel like they are interminable. It's weather is not okay. Well, thank you so much for joining and I will put all of your info in the episode notes, as I always do. I cannot wait for October 7th and the 17th because, thankfully, I'm local, so I will be there at Changing Hands and thank you. Thank you for having me.