Ep 127: On Writing...Everything, with Melissa de la Cruz

Bestselling author Melissa de la Cruz has published nearly 80 books (yes, 80), and in this episode, she shares what it really takes to build and sustain a long-term writing career. From surviving the shifting tides of publishing to protecting what gets you "in the mood" to write, she shares the kind of wisdom every author loves hearing. 

INSIDE THE EPISODE:

• Melissa's advice: Don’t quit your day job until the math says you can
• Success is wonderful; it also resets with every new book
• How to protect your creative hours (8am–1pm, in her case)
• Books are logic puzzles, not lightning strikes (I love this analogy!)
• If social media isn’t fun, don’t do it. Period. (Who's cheering?)
• The final sprint before deadline is where the magic (and panic) often happen

Whether you're writing book 1 or book 71, this episode's packed with truths you'll be grateful for.

👉 CLICK HERE to get the first draft of your nonfiction or memoir written in 33 days!

...even if you don't have a cabin in the wilderness, 4 uninterrupted hours a day to write, or confidence that you're a "real" writer. No overwhelm, no confusion. Just simple, actionable steps.

Awesome Email Templates for Authors

From communicating with your launch team to building relationships with readers, my customizable templates take all the guesswork out of writing emails that turn email subscribers into loyal readers. 

🎉 CLICK HERE to access to the templates

Dreaming of seeing your book in print but dreading the process?

From cover design to interior formatting to ISBN registration and properly loading your book to distributors, whether you need help with parts of the process or the whole darn thing, I’ve got you covered.

Visit www.publishaprofitablebook.com/self-publishing-services to learn more. 

Is 2025 the year you start your own podcast? Let's make it simple!

Get 35% off the Podcast Starter Pack with code PODCAST35 at https://publishaprofitablebook.com/podcast101

"I got my podcast launched in 3 days thanks to this great mini-course!"
--Dr. Diana Naranjo, The Characterist podcast host

Chapters

• 1:32 Author Elizabeth Lyons' Introduction
• 2:22 Meet Melissa de la Cruz
• 7:09 The Writer's Financial Reality
• 14:23 The Publishing Hustle Never Ends
• 20:31 Success, Humility, and Hollywood
• 27:17 YA Publishing's Evolution
• 34:26 Literary vs. Commercial Fiction
• 37:58 A Love for Cooking Memoirs
• 43:47 The Writing Process and Partnership

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:56

Elizabeth Lyons than absolutely necessary Because, let's face it, some overthinking, second-guessing and overwhelm is going to come with the territory, if you're anything like me. In short, I love books and I believe that story and shared perspective are two of the most impactful ways we connect with one another. A few things I don't believe in Gimmicks, magic bullets and swoon-worthy results without context, as in be sure to reveal that a result took eight years or required a $30,000 investment in ads, because those details are just as important. What I believe in most as an author, the long game, is the shortcut For more book writing and publishing. Tips and solutions. Visit publishaprofitablebookcom or visit me over on Instagram at ElizabethLionsAuthor.

Speaker 1: 1:46

Hi everybody and welcome to this episode of Write the Damn Book. Already, melissa de la Cruz truly needs no introduction. The woman has written almost 80 books, 80. Eight, zero, like eight times ten. I can't even, I can't even. And still she has some of the same thoughts and concerns and worries that she had way back when she was writing the first.

Speaker 1: 2:13

If you're not familiar with Melissa, she's the number one New York Times, number one Publishers Weekly and number number one indie bound bestselling, author of many critically acclaimed and award-winning novels for readers of all ages. Her novel the Isle of the Lost, which is the prequel to the Disney Channel original movie Descendants, spent more than 50 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list 15 at number one and has over a million copies in print. She's also known for the Blue Blood series, with 3 million copies in print, and the Witches of East End series. She's also the founder and principal of Melissa de la Cruz Studio at Disney Publishing, which will create and package books in every genre and age range, but with a focus on middle grade and young adult, from a diverse group of new and established writers that will appeal to all platforms across the Disney company for a global audience. If you go to her website, which I've included in the list, she needs a navigation menu just for all the books and all the series. Her latest novel, when Stars Align I recently started and am, of course, loving it. It was published by Mindy's Book Studio Mindy being Mindy Kaling, which is an Amazon publishing imprint.

Speaker 1: 3:26

And, oh my God, I just don't need to say any more. Let's just, let's get on with this conversation, shall we? You know, I feel like. I feel like we're meant to know each other now, you and I and Jordan and I, jordan is, I love her. I meant to know each other. Now, you and I and Jordan and I, jordan is, I love her. My God, jordan's the best, she is absolutely the best. And she said you have to talk to Melissa.

Speaker 1: 3:47

And the funniest thing was about maybe a day later I was stretching, because when I'm not rolling myself to the refrigerator, I'm stretching. That's my version of working out. Melissa is stretching, I love it. Yeah, so stretching.

Speaker 1: 4:03

And I look over and I see there is your name on right. Uh it, it's one of the descendants. Rise of the aisle of the lost is sitting right there. Did I get that title Right? Cause there's four of them? So okay, and I thought I recognize the book, but I it wasn't for me, it was for my youngest daughter, who's now 17. And she was obsessed with the Descendants. And then I actually learned yesterday that my ex-husband who I don't he's my partner in parenting, as I call him because we're good friends, but he was obsessed with Descendants and I thought, oh, there she is. And then, would you know, just a few days after that, I logged in and I got my Amazon email for the first reads and there was when stars align. Oh, yay. Anyway, jordan said you've written 9 million books, and I don't think she wasn't far off, because what are we at now?

Speaker 2: 5:01

80 million uh, I know, um, I so I believe stars align might be my 77th book, because I know my 80th book is coming out this September. So, um, and it might be my 79th. I'm trying, I always wonder if I'm missing something. We are in May, I believe. Uh, it might be 79, and then September is the 80th.

Speaker 1: 5:29

So like it would be fair if you, what do you even do when people say, um, if they aren't familiar with you, and they say so, what have you written do?

Speaker 2: 5:39

you usually say uh, you know, I write for kids because that's kind of the bulk of you know what I'm known for and I write for. Disney is usually, you know, an easy thing. And Descendants although at first when you say Descendants you know they were like oh, the George Clooney movie. So now I say Disney's Descendants.

Speaker 1: 5:58

Disney's Descendants Two very differentcendants, two very different vibes there Two very different, yeah. So when I was thinking about this this morning, because I thought, oh my gosh, I could ask so many questions, having been doing this for so long and having written so many books, what if someone were at the very beginning of their career and just feeling terrified and confused and not knowing Like what? What would you say?

Speaker 2: 6:32

I would say you know what is your goal. You know, like do you want to get published? Do you want to get published? Do you want to? You know, is it something where you want to make your art and you want it to be recognized, but you don't necessarily want or you don't want to compromise, so you know you don't need to live on it. Do you want books to be your main source of income? I guess I would say so. If you want books to be your main source of income, I would say keep your day job for as long as you can until you know, um, the writing pays you enough that you can live on it. And I would also say, be very frugal. You know, um, I decided I wanted to be a full-time writer and that I could live on much, much less. So I I was actually a computer consultant for Morgan Stanley.

Speaker 2: 7:23

I was a computer programmer for 10 years and at one point I actually don't think I actually quit my job I think I got laid off during the recession of 2000. You know, when print magazines were dying and and everything was being laid off, I actually jumped from computers to Allure. So I was at Condé Nast for about a year. And then I actually went back to computers, when, you know, I was going to get a job at Mademoiselle but then they closed the magazine. So I was like, okay, I'll just go back to my day job. And then Morgan Stanley did a round of layoffs but by then I'd sold my first novel and I said you know what I can live on this? You know, my husband and I were both artists. You know, he was an architect. And I said let's just do what we want to do and not care about money. And you know. So you know you have to care about money, a little bit, sure, sure, but you know. But you know, but you know it was enough for us to live and to pursue our dreams.

Speaker 2: 8:26

And I think that you know that is what I will tell people. You know, either you have a patron, you know, I think I saw an interview with Brett DeSanellis and they said what's your advice for writers? And he said Mary Rich, you know he's hilarious, he's one of my idols. So you know, I would say you know, finances is certainly something, but I think you know it's one of my idols. So you know, I would say you know, finances is certainly something, but I think, you know, it's kind of like where are they in their career, are they? You know, have they published some things you know, online? Have they been getting paid to write?

Speaker 2: 9:45

You know, I would say start off small, try to build the following. You know, I think Substack is a great way. You know, there's just so many ways now that you can publish yourself and get yourself out there. You know, I only sadly know the traditional route. I don't really know how writers, you know, make money outside of that. You know. So to me the goal has always been you know, a book, a book contract with one of the big traditional publishers, a book contract with one of the big traditional publishers.

Speaker 1: 10:13

But even that when you first got started, right was it? You said you learned or decided to live frugally. But was it less than what you thought? Because what I hear oftentimes and I don't come from the traditional world, I come from the self-publishing world but a lot of my friends who are traditionally published will say yeah, I got a five-figure, high, five, mid to high five figures, even a low six figure deal, but it was paid out over four years, minus 15% to my agent, minus taxes, and then all of a sudden that wasn't really that much.

Speaker 2: 10:44

Yeah, you know, it really isn't. And I was a magazine writer for a long time, so I supplemented my income that way and then, when I decided that I actually did want to, you know, just focus on books, you know, and the reason I've published 80 books this year is because I, you know, it is the main source of my income. So you actually have to hustle, you know, and that is what you have to do if you're going to be a full-time writer is that you're constantly hustling. And I just had lunch with, you know, three friends and we all kind of started I think I, me and Sarah Malinowski probably started, you know, the oldest like we both started in the nineties and, you know, these other writers probably started in the two thousands or the 2010s, you know, but we've all been in the game for 15 years or more and it is just a continuous hustle, you know.

Speaker 1: 11:33

I don't love that you're saying that, but I love that you're saying that. I think the idea is once I get X number of books or et cetera under my belt, it's like I'm in the machine and it just works for me. Do you find that you still are out having to do as much publicity as either you ever did, or more than you would have thought? 80 books in.

Speaker 2: 11:55

You know it goes up and down. You have a big hit. You can kind of coast, you know, which is kind of nice, you know, and I've had several hits in my career. So those, those years are like, oh, you can kind of exhale, you know, and then it goes away and I, you know, I always tell writers, you know, especially people who come out of the gate with these big deals and this big publicity and these big sales, and it kind of goes through their head.

Speaker 2: 12:20

I'm like at some point they stop selling and they always do, especially if you're in the children's book world and the YA world, because turnover is so quick. Because turnover is so quick, you know. And but God bless, you know people like Gordon Corman, who's been publishing since he was 12 and he's still publishing and you know, and he's, you know he's hustling out there and you know. But I think that's the exception and not the rule. I think people do think the machine works for them, but that's not true. You will have to work for the machine. There is no rest, really. There is no rest for the weary.

Speaker 1: 12:59

Does it feel at this point like it's and I use this word there are so many air quotes, but easy to get the next deal. Or do you feel as though every time you're kind of starting over, I have a new concept? You know, when I was talking to Jordan about TV and she said it really doesn't matter how many things you've done, you've got a new concept and now you've got to sell that concept and if it's not right or wrong place, wrong time, wrong people, wrong everything, it just isn't going to go. It doesn't necessarily mean it's not a great concept. Do you feel that way every time you have a new concept to present?

Speaker 2: 13:36

You're only as good as your last hit. So if your book was a hit, everybody wants to take your meeting. Everybody's excited to see you. You know I didn't understand that, especially in Hollywood, when I first had my big hit and you know I was offered to show a Nickelodeon which I turned down because my daughter was just born. I was like I don't really want to go to Vancouver, thinking, oh my God, you know this happens all the time. I'll get another show and it really does not happen like that at all. You know, strike when the iron is hot and when you're on top of the world and everybody wants to take your meeting and buy your book. You know it's the time to sell. Other than that, they're going to bring up all those sales figures and they will show you, you know, how much you have cost them and you know so it is a dance, it's a game, but I would say the easier you are to work with, the more dependable you are.

Speaker 2: 14:25

I mean all these kinds of boring things at any job. You know showing up for when. You know I've gone to festivals and I've been there with my publicist and she had another author she was publicizing and the author just said she couldn't make it, didn't get on her plane, I don't know, had some kind of. And the publicist said here I am at 500 books. This is so unprofessional.

Speaker 2: 14:48

And I said, yeah, you know, and I've seen that, I've seen authors, you know, just flake out on a lot of things. And I think maybe they think that because either it's like your part time job or it's a job that you do on the weekends because promotions are usually on the weekends for book festivals that it's not taken seriously. But it actually is. You know, people come out, they have sent your book there, your publicist is there. So you know, I think that you know, being very dependable and being very easy to work with has kept me in this career, when, when you know, let's say, there's like a little bit of a fallow period between hits, but you, you always need to hit if you want to stay in the game, 100%.

Speaker 1: 15:35

Well, and it sounds like to stay humble too.

Speaker 2: 15:38

You know that definitely helps. I mean, it doesn't hurt to be humble, it doesn't hurt to know everybody's name, it doesn't hurt to remember that this is the job. They don't work for you, they work for the company. I think that you know, but I think it does go to your head. I mean, certainly, the first time I had a huge hit, my head was humongous Really.

Speaker 1: 16:02

Which one was that what?

Speaker 2: 16:03

was the first when Blue Bloods, during the vampire you know the vampire years when Twilight was big and Blue Bloods was big and you know I just remember being so haughty and my husband said, yeah, you were kind of terrible and I thought we were gonna have this huge TV show. And it's so funny because we were in competition. Not in competition they do a lot of parallel development which I did not know. I didn't know that Warner Brothers was actually developing two vampire shows at the same time. One was Blue Bloods and one was the Vampire Diaries.

Speaker 1: 16:40

I was just going to say was it the Vampire?

Speaker 2: 16:42

Diaries and they chose the Vampire Diaries because Kevin Williamson was the showrunner. And I always say, if Kevin Williamson was our showrunner, blue Bloods would be on TV and whoever wrote the Vampire Diaries would be right here right now.

Speaker 1: 16:59

That show was dead to me. That was my time. We will not talk about that.

Speaker 2: 17:02

We will not mention that. But you know it's all good. You can't let it get to your head and you can't define yourself by your career. Like that weighs madness.

Speaker 1: 17:10

Do you the? The YA in the children's space is notoriously challenging for the. What do you think are the biggest reasons for that, besides what you've already said, which is high turnover, and is there anything else that makes that it?

Speaker 2: 17:24

actually was not. Ya when I started was a lot more dependable and adult, so much more cutthroat. I think what's happened is that YA is now like adult. So when I started in YA in 2002, it was one bookshelf at the bookstore and so there were very few books that were being published. So when you published your YA or children's book, it would stay on the shelves for a very long time and, you know, it just gave you a lot more. You know you just got more chances for it to find an audience, whereas when I published my adult book my first book was actually for adults you got two weeks on that shelf and if it did not move you were out. You know, and YA now being such a huge genre also being read by adults, it is now just like the adult market, which is, you know, a lot more cutthroat for sure.

Speaker 1: 18:17

Was there a turning point with that? Do you think? Like was Harry Potter? Perhaps? Absolutely like was Harry Potter, perhaps absolutely okay.

Speaker 2: 18:22

Harry Potter is the reason we all have jobs. You know, we all get those advances. I I mean you know, I, whatever you know has happened, uh, with JK Rowling. You have to acknowledge that. You know she created this, uh, this genre, this space, this kind of you know, financially and in the readers for sure.

Speaker 1: 18:45

Well, I just don't. From what I can remember, no one expected Harry Potter to be beloved by 90 year olds as well as nine year olds.

Speaker 2: 18:54

Yeah, I mean it was rejected by like 30 publishers, right. I mean that's why it's like nobody really knows what makes a hit. You know it's the same thing in books as it is in movies and TV shows. You know everybody works really hard and either it hits or it doesn't. You just kind of get lucky.

Speaker 1: 19:12

Did you ever have, or do you ever have, what I call a should book where someone says, ok, melissa, you should do this, because if you just did this it would go really really well? And try to move you.

Speaker 2: 19:25

You're shaking your head, but no, I would say that I've done everything.

Speaker 1: 19:36

I don't have a book that's not written. Never say never's. Just curious to me. When people have that kind of success, it's a business, right? So if someone, you strike me as a pretty strong personality and in the sense that you know what you want to do and that's what you want to do. So how do you keep coming up with concepts? Are you incredibly? You're obviously incredibly imaginative, but how do you come up with the next?

Speaker 2: 20:12

concept. I like novelty and I like trends and I like what people are into. I think I like you know, I like bestsellers people are into. I think I like you know, I like bestsellers. I think a lot of artists see themselves as kind of outsiders, or you know, and I always say that, you know, if you want to write and I always wanted to write commercial fiction because I love commercial fiction, I love. But I love literary fiction too.

Speaker 2: 20:36

I mean, without a doubt, you know what's the difference for you, how do you define it? I mean, I guess you know literary and literary fiction is a genre. You know what's the difference for you. How do you define it? I mean, I guess you know literary and literary fiction is a genre. You know now in like the contemporary. But you know, like I grew up loving, you know my favorite book is war and peace.

Speaker 2: 20:54

You know that is my absolute favorite book. I'm like very much inspired by, you know, the characters in it, the romance in it. You know it got me out of a huge depression. But I also grew up loving, you know, stephen King. He was like my favorite author growing up. I mean, who's more commercial than Stephen King? You know Right. So I think I'm just interested in a lot of things and I'm interested in what people are interested in and I think when you're open to that, you know, and also I'm kind of allowed, because I'm in YA, to be able to write several different genres. You know I've written thrillers, I've written natural, I've written fantasy, portal fantasy, second world fantasy. You know I've written children's books. So so I think being in in children's allowed me to do a lot of different genres and so when I do that in adult, it's not like, oh, you've never done that. I was like well, I did that in YA, why can't I do it for adults?

Speaker 1: 21:54

You said War and Peace got you out of a depression. Oh, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:58

I was like I read War and Peace at one point just to say I had read it and I was like, okay, I think I need to read it again Because there was war, then there was peace and there was war, like it, the most aptly titled book, possibly. Possibly it was how he talked about families and how he talked about the love between siblings, like you know, like really, um, uh, katerina and her brother Nikolai, like that relationship and that book is so wonderful and even like how wise it was about, um, you know, kind of about people in the world. You know, my favorite character is Katerina, katya, and something about her. She's, you know, it's like to whom much is given, more is given, you know, because she was so privileged and she was so beloved and so she was so loving, whereas, you know, contrast that with Sonia, who was always kind of, you know, you know like, oh, the poor girl, the poor relative, and we were supposed to feel bad for her.

Speaker 2: 23:06

It was it kind of turned out on the on its head, like because Sonia always felt lesser than she was, lesser, you know, in her own mind also. And Nikolai doesn't end up with her spoiler, you know, he ends up right, yeah, um and uh, and you know, and Katerina says something about that. You know, she always thought less and so I just wanted that abundance. I think it is also that like kind of you know thinking of abundantly. So I actually named. My daughter is named matea katherine after katarina.

Speaker 1: 23:34

So no kidding my. So one of my favorite books is anna karenina and'm starting to think right, so it's.

Speaker 1: 23:43

I have three favorites I, and that's one of them. And my grandfather, who passed away, gosh, I want to say about 15 years ago, had a leather bound edition of Anna Karenina and it just sits. I'm almost afraid to open it because I just it's beloved to me, but I want to read it again from there. Because it's beloved to me, but I want to read it again from there. And now you've got me thinking about whether or not there are sort of subconscious reasons why I loved that book that I don't realize. Have you read the Covenant of Water? Okay, Abraham Verghese, so it's newer, I mean it's in the last couple of years. But when I think literary fiction, for some reason that's the book that first pops into my mind. And I have to read literary fiction very slowly. Yeah, Do you read things in a different way? Do you immerse yourself in it in different genres, in different ways?

Speaker 2: 24:44

I think that it has to be something that keeps me turning the pages, so boring I put it down, you know. You know, certainly some literary fiction is very compelling and easy to read and fun, you know, fun to get into it. I've not read that book, you know, if it looks too boring I'm not going to read it. But okay, I'm trying to get you it. Um, I've not read that book, you know, if it looks too boring I'm not gonna read it.

Speaker 1: 25:03

But okay, um, trying to think yet you are in war and peace, because I think that's the funny thing about that is. I think so many people would say I was so bored yeah, no, it's not boring at all.

Speaker 2: 25:15

Well, it's like the war stuff is boring.

Speaker 1: 25:17

I mean you can well, that agreed. And I had to keep going back to that damn map. Yeah, I was like where are we? Like, thank God there's an index of characters and a map at the beginning, like now we have to have maps in books that have world building. But we, I legit needed the map. Yeah, and the map of characters, like who is whom? I cannot, I cannot, I just cannot.

Speaker 2: 25:40

It's easy to keep track of Andre, katya, you know, pierre and Nikolai, it's too much.

Speaker 1: 25:49

Well, I took a Russian lit class, which was strange, in college and it was one of my favorite classes. It was strange because who signs up for a Russian lit class? But I did and I can still see my professor. I mean, we won't talk about how many years ago it was, but I can't remember her name, but I can see her and it was the most fascinating class because she was so passionate about Russian literature and about Russian authors. It was just incredibly. What's your favorite thing to read? Do you have one?

Speaker 2: 26:15

Cooking memoirs. I love cooking.

Speaker 2: 26:18

Stop it Because I I mean, I kind of cook. You know, my daughter kind of like shamed me into cooking, you know, and she wanted home-cooked meals instead of Postmates. I think, uh, one of the Kardashians showed her Postmates bill and think ours was higher, so it was like, oh my god, you know, um, so I, but I love the fantasy of cooking, you you know, and I love about, you know, ruth Reichel or MFK Fisher, or you know, I mean any cooking memoir I will read. You know, restaurant memoirs, wine memoirs, you know anything with food, people making them, you know, and all the drama behind it, you know, it's definitely even the recipes you know. So great, so great to think I'll do it one day. I never do.

Speaker 1: 27:05

Okay. Well, I feel I I'm like a big old Pinterest fail waiting to happen with every, every recipe on the planet, cause I see it and I think okay let's go, let's do it, and I just am not. I'm not terribly good at it, as all of my children will attest to that fact. I'm also just. I don't love it.

Speaker 2: 27:32

I find it relaxing, but I don't like the prep for it. You know, because you actually have to go to the grocery store and you have to cut it all up and then you know, and then you actually have to cook it. I told my daughter I was like I'm going to have a dinner party and maybe I'll cook because I've been cooking for the family. And my daughter was like horrified. She was like you can cook for me and daddy, but not for other people. Mom, why would you subject them to your cooking?

Speaker 1: 27:55

I was like okay, I guess we won't do that, I, I. It makes me question, like the sous chef, the guy or gal who's in there just chopping everything, I think what, if I've cut one carrot, I'm done, that's exactly right, I don't. And when they say cut the carrot like matchsticks.

Speaker 2: 28:16

Oh yeah, no, that's not going to happen. I'm out.

Speaker 1: 28:18

Now, if you bring it to me and it's already cut like matchsticks, I could get into it. Yeah, but is there? So is there a favorite cooking memoir that you just you read and you just thought oh man.

Speaker 2: 28:31

Um, I loved, uh, giuliana Malucci's I loved I lost, I made spaghetti because it's about it's kind of like a sex in the city dating memoir, um, but also about her mom and actually the recipes are actually really easy. Um, it's like italian uh recipes. So, yeah, I loved I lost, I made spaghetti one of my favorites and the recipes are great. I've made the meatballs. I actually was able to make them and it actually turned out well. I think I made them twice in my life. Yeah, but anything Ruth Reichel writes come for me with apples is amazing. I'm always-.

Speaker 1: 29:57

I've heard of none of these, I think. Clearly I stay away from the recipe section of the bookstore. That is not for me, I guess Maybe I I don't know. Do you think I'd get more into it if I read the backstory? Do you like watching it on TV?

Speaker 2: 30:14

Yes, I also like watching it, for sure. Yes, I love the food channel. I love any kind of cooking show. I love is it cake when you know on Netflix, where the host cuts it is it cake and my husband and I were like it's cake or it's not cake a cake and my husband and I were like it's cake or it's not cake.

Speaker 1: 30:33

So it's very clear that the cakes I bake are in fact cake and shouldn't be. That's kind of how. There's a new one I just saw. I can't remember what streaming service it's on, but it's like a documentary of four different, and one of them is Alice Waters, who I'm, or is it Alice? Is that? Am I saying that right, because I feel like it's. Is she a chef? Okay, I feel like I'm. Isn't there an author named Alice?

Speaker 2: 30:57

I think there is an author also, but I don't know Right Chez Panisse Alice Waters.

Speaker 1: 31:03

Yes, yes, okay With the salads.

Speaker 2: 31:05

Yeah, with the salad, the fancy, we went to Chez Panisse when did we go Just recently actually.

Speaker 1: 31:16

It was. Did we go just recently? Actually it was cool. Well, the way she talks about salad and then I, I go and I make my salad and I maybe I just it's because Alice needs to make my salad.

Speaker 2: 31:22

I think Alice needs to make all of our you know all of our salads.

Speaker 1: 31:25

I feel like I would eat so much better if someone like that. Okay, I digress. So what keeps you? Is it your love of writing that keeps you in the space and keeps you producing more and more?

Speaker 2: 31:40

like what keeps you here yeah, I, you know, even though you know it's so funny, you always have to remember you're living your dream right. And you know, seeing my author, friends we were all like why the f do we do this? It's's so hard, it's so stressful, I mean. And then the hustle and grind of it all, and then you realize, you know, when you're writing a story, it is really fun. And what would I do? I mean, I just entertain myself.

Speaker 2: 32:05

You know, I like being alone, I like making up things, I like figuring out puzzles, you know, because a book is like a logic puzzle and if you have no story coherence, nobody understands it. And then if you do it right, people take it for granted. But it's actually one of the hardest things to do. So I think I like the mental challenge of it and then I like just being left alone with my imagination. So yeah, I actually do like that with my imagination. So yeah, I actually do like that, you know.

Speaker 2: 32:39

And I think I didn't realize that being an author means also being promoting and traveling. And I love talking to readers, I love meeting my readers. That is really really fun and actually makes me feel better about what I'm doing, because you remember that there's actually people reading it. I think, you know, book tours are really exhausting so I don't look forward to them. So it's kind of like I just kind of get through them and you know, and then I come home and be like thank God, but you know, but yeah, you know, and also I have my mortgage and you know I send the kid to college and you know it was a job. So there's that.

Speaker 1: 33:17

What a great point that when you read a great book, it's easy to think how hard can this be?

Speaker 2: 33:23

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:24

Right, without recognizing that that person 9000 drafts later. That's where they ended up. Yeah, what's your process for? Do you write it quickly and then have people review it beta readers or what's your process now? How has that evolved?

Speaker 2: 33:43

So my husband and I work together. You know my name is on them, but you know we actually work on the books pretty, I mean pretty collaborative, I mean it's like 50, 50, 50. So, uh, we usually come up with the concepts together, um, sometimes it's his concept, sometimes it's mine. He's also published seven books under his own name. We've published three under both of our names and then the majority is under my name. But we, we work on all of them together.

Speaker 2: 34:11

So we kind of talk it out and then I'll write the first kind of like you know kind of proposal that we sell, and then, um, and then usually he and I write the outline together. Sometimes he writes the whole outline, sometimes I write the whole outline, and then we just kind of trade it back and forth. You know, he's usually um, a great you know idea generator, and I'm usually the one who says whether the marketplace will buy it. I'll be like, oh, I can use that and I think I can sell it here, you know. And then I'm usually the end, I'm like the polisher and the one who kind of takes it into production. So so, yeah, so that's how we work and you know, it's kind of it's easy and difficult because you know we're business partners writing partners and's kind of. It's easy and difficult because you know we're business partners writing partners and we're married and we're parents. So you know sometimes it's like too much. You know we have a lot of time together.

Speaker 1: 35:05

Right. So I'm hearing plotter. Are you more of a plot? You guys are plotting, or you're plotting Absolutely Before you're writing? Are you right every day?

Speaker 2: 35:17

Not every day. You know my Tuesdays are my zoom days Every day if the deadline is there. So if the deadline is about two weeks out, you know, that's kind of when I started canceling all my plans. We I start just staying at home. You know it is the writing cave, got to get that book into production and and that's when you know those really long writing writing hours are sometimes that's actually when the book really happens. You know, I think Maggie Stiefvater has talked about that. She's like you can write, write, write. But like that last, you know two weeks, that last month is really kind of when the book comes alive and it's really exciting because you've kind of figured it out and then you're just right, you know you're not even counting words anymore because you actually know the story, so you're just trying to get it down.

Speaker 1: 36:03

Yeah, Are you someone who does? Can you do 15 minute increments or do you need four hours? Does it vary?

Speaker 2: 36:12

I usually work from like 8am to about 1pm creatively, which means like I try not to answer emails, I try not to answer the phone, I try not to do any non writing work. So I just have that block of time to really focus. So I think that you know is really you know really getting into the flow and kind of the deep work of it. And then after lunch is when I answer emails and do all the admin and kind of work on domestic, what's for dinner and all that.

Speaker 1: 36:48

And who's going to put the carrots into matchsticks? Exactly, not me. Yeah, not me. Do you spend a lot of time on social media?

Speaker 2: 36:57

uh, not really. I mean yes and no. You know I I always tell authors like to do it if it's fun, so I'll do it if it's fun, you know, and you know like, oh, I look cute there. Or like, oh, this is a photo of my friends and we'll post this, oh, we should promote, should promote the book. I don't know, maybe as a Gen Xer I just that whole, like blasting the sound of your own trumpet, is just really hard. But I actually think you actually do have to do it. So I'm trying to do a lot more now. I used to have a lot more assistants before COVID. So I had, and I still have, a social media assistant. But I had somebody who would come here and kind of help me with the admin and help run. You know all the fan letters and all that. And now it's just me and you know, so it's kind of random. So I always say this newsletter you'll get randomly when I have something to say, I'll let you know.

Speaker 1: 37:56

Yeah, last question I always ask is what are you reading now, or what have you read recently, besides War and Peace, that you really loved?

Speaker 2: 38:06

Oh, that I really loved. I really loved Legends and Lattes by Travis I can't remember his last name, I can look it up uh, legends and Lattes which is a cozy fantasy about a female orc who, uh, retires and opens a coffee shop and it is so fun. You know I'm a fantasy junkie. Uh, you know I love Lord of the Rings, so it's basically, you know, kind of in that world of, like, orcs and wizards and all that, but it's really just about opening a coffee shop and it's so great.

Speaker 1: 38:40

I loved it. You said you've now said it twice, so you confirmed it. But I was like did she just say orc and orc opened a coffee shop? You can write anything? Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. Oh yeah yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:52

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 38:54

Oh my gosh. Well, I love anything about a coffee shop, so anything else, any other books that you've?

Speaker 2: 39:03

What else have I read lately? I've been reading a lot of romance I read. So I have a big adult romanticist which is coming out in September called Rings of Fate, and it's my first adult romanticist. It's uh, it's Lord of the Rings with sex, so check it out.

Speaker 1: 39:21

So I've never been into really Lord of the Rings, but if you add in the set like let's, let's go.

Speaker 2: 39:27

It's a well, my publisher is is calling it the princess. Bride means time, so it's kind of a bantering couple. So, uh, and I was reading a lot of romance. Anyway, I was reading a lot of Bridgerton. So the Bridgeton, the Bridgerton series is amazing. It's so fun, it is so much fun to read. Um, it is just a, you know, reading pleasure. I haven't really read anything that I would love. I read things that I was like kind of may about, so I'm not going to talk about those books.

Speaker 1: 39:55

Right, sure we can. Yeah, we can keep that on the down low. What did you say? Your publisher, princess Bride, meets what?

Speaker 2: 40:02

A Wheel of Time which is like a Lord of the Rings. I guess they didn't want to use Lord of the Rings, so it's Princess Bride meets Wheel of Time.

Speaker 1: 40:11

Okay that, and is it a series or is it a standalone?

Speaker 2: 40:15

It is a series it is a series.

Speaker 1: 40:16

Okay, oh, I'm excited. I never thought I'd say I'm excited for something that, but I am. I'm excited, Melissa.

Speaker 2: 40:23

It is fun. It's about a snarky barmaid who, you know, doesn't think she'll ever fall in love or was ever worthy of love, and a handsome prince with a terrible secret. And it's just so fun to watch them fall in love. It was so fun to write.

Speaker 1: 40:38

I can't wait. Well, thank you so much for creating the time and being. You've inspired me. I feel like I want to go wallpaper something.

Speaker 2: 40:47

Oh yes, this is the. I think it's actually zebras, oh it is.

Speaker 1: 40:53

Oh, I can see it now, okay. Yes, it's the zebras. Oh it is. Oh, I can see it now, okay, yes.

Speaker 2: 40:56

It's the Maasai wallpaper from Scalabandra Scalabandra. Okay, I will look, oh my gosh, the Royal Tenenbaums. I think had like the red zebras, so it comes in red green. I went with the gold. It's a black and gold office. Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1: 41:13

I went with the gold. It's a black and gold office. Yeah, I love it. It's great, like I'm really feeling inspired.

Speaker 2: 41:17

Thank you so much. I wish we had renovated downstairs so my closet could be out of here.

Speaker 1: 41:23

Well, in time, in time, oh, my gosh Thank you.

Speaker 2: 41:28

Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun.

Speaker 1: 41:32

Thank you so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, this is your friendly reminder to follow or subscribe, leave a quick review and share it with someone you know has a great story or message but isn't sure what to do next. Also, remember to check out publishaprofitablebookcom for book writing resources and tips and to see all the ways we can work together to get your book out into the world. Again, thanks so much for listening and I'll talk with you again soon.