Write the Damn Book Already
Writing and publishing a phenomenal book doesn’t have to be ridiculously complicated or mind-numbingly overwhelming. From myths and misconceptions to practical tips and sound strategies, Elizabeth Lyons (author, book writing coach, book editor, and founder of Finn-Phyllis Press), helps writers feel more in control of and comfortable with the business of book publishing. Her interviews with fellow authors discussing their writing processes and publishing journeys aim to help you untangle YOUR process so you can finally get your story into the world.
Write the Damn Book Already
Ep 123: Reality TV and Romance with Neely Tubati-Alexander
Click Here to ask your book writing and publishing questions!
She’s back! One of my all-time favorite guests, Neely Tubati-Alexander, returns to talk about her third novel, Courtroom Drama. As always, she brings a refreshing, no-nonsense take on staying creative and productive in the unpredictable world of publishing.
INSIDE THE EPISODE
📚 Why Neely sprints through her first drafts instead of obsessing over every word
📚 How she embraces her "pantser" style (yep, she often writes the beginning and end first, with no outline in sight)
📚 What it’s really like to write books in the cracks of everyday life, and how reality TV, genre-hopping, and real-life fascinations all sneak into her stories
📚 Using the writing of the next book to stay grounded when the release of the current one is causing stress
📚 Why research is her secret creative fuel, from courtroom procedures to video game design
📚 How the evolution of publishing is finally making room for authors to explore their full range of creativith
Neely’s approach is honest, energizing, and a great reminder that there’s no one “right” way to do this writing thing.
Follow Neely on Instagram @NeelyAlexanderWrites and look for Courtroom Drama releasing May 20th, 2025 from HarperCollins.
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Write the Damn Book Already is a weekly podcast featuring interviews with authors as well as updates and insights on writing craft and the publishing industry.
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Elizabeth Lyons than absolutely necessary Because, let's face it, some overthinking, second-guessing and overwhelm is going to come with the territory, if you're anything like me. In short, I love books and I believe that story and shared perspective are two of the most impactful ways we connect with one another. A few things I don't believe in Gimmicks, magic bullets and swoon-worthy results without context, as in be sure to reveal that a result took eight years or required a $30,000 investment in ads, because those details are just as important. What I believe in most as an author, the long game, is the shortcut For more book writing and publishing. Tips and solutions. Visit publishaprofitablebookcom or visit me over on Instagram at ElizabethLionsAuthor. Hi everybody and welcome back or welcome in.
Speaker 1:For quite some time, I almost referred to this podcast as the Neely Show, because I talked about and continue to talk about today's guest so often that it almost felt like it was the Liz and Neely show. Neely Toubati, alexander and I met. It was probably just over two years ago. Her first book, Love Buzz, was coming out, and she reached out to me over Instagram. She was looking for other authors in the Phoenix area and said, hey, you want to meet for lunch? And that was the beginning and the rest is history, because after that lunch I just thought I can't not have this person in my life on the regular. She's been such an inspiration to me as I work on my first novel which, as it turns out, is a lot harder for me than nonfiction and I've mentioned her multiple times as my current critique partner, although she's probably wondering if she still has that role because she has not seen pages from me in many, many months. But I swear they're coming. I swear they're coming. So I was very excited, and I'm always very excited to have an opportunity to chat with her. But I'm most excited probably when it has to do with the release of yet another book.
Speaker 1:Neely's third book, courtroom Drama, comes out May 20th of 2025 with HarperCollins, and I was lucky enough to be able to read a bit of it earlier on and, of course, loved every word and couldn't wait for the thing to come out. So I'm going to need May 20th to get here already. She's just such an honest, down-to-earth, real person and I know how much in previous episodes listeners have appreciated her real-world, honest, true-to-life exploration of what she's navigated in the publishing world, how she's navigated it, how it's changed from book to book, what she's expected, what she's been surprised by all those sorts of things. So all of the links to Neely's books and social media and website and et cetera are in the show notes. Let's just get right on with the conversation.
Speaker 1:Okay, courtroom is three, right? Yes, maybe seven minutes ago, before I got on here, I was like, is it four or is it three? And then I thought, oh my God, it's because I had you read like books that aren't out yet. I know, and that's why I just feel so excited and privileged to be your friend. Like, do you realize? This is so fun? Because I feel like I've witnessed. I'm not the only one, but I like to sometimes think I am. I've witnessed. The whole journey we first met was right just before love buzz came out. I totally remember.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, yes, I very much was like, as I was like thinking about you know jumping on here. I was like gosh, we've really you've been with me through this whole process. It's so fun as you know, I'm also writing this disto mance um that I've been like in this world like rushing to the finish line, so that we can sort of capitalize on this wave that's happening right now, cause I never feel like I'm hitting at the right time, which is part of the thing that you can't control with the market, and this one feels like, for the first time, potentially, I will be, you know, if we can, if we can get it right.
Speaker 1:Let me interrupt you for a second Cause I asked somebody else this the other day, and then I was thinking of our mutual friend Crystal. Do you think that spec, do you think dystopian, is part of spec fiction? Do you think of it that way?
Speaker 2:I'm so new to this specific space that I don't even have an answer for that, like I'm trying to learn it myself through the process of writing it and like looking for comps and trying to read in the space. And there are a lot of YA books that are kind of in this space. Um, I'm finding the adult ones, but they're they're not. There aren't as many as you think. But then I'm starting to see a deal announcements come through for more and more like truly dystopian romance, okay, like in that genre. So it's exciting, like it's starting to. But, yeah, speculative and sci-fi are very, very closely aligned a lot of times. But what you specifically would call dystopian versus sci-fi, I think it really comes down to like Is it more of like an end of world or new world type of scenario? And is there like Okay, I don't know more of like an end of world or new world type of scenario? And is there like this Okay, I don't know. I mean, mine definitely has sci-fi in it too. So now you're making me wonder.
Speaker 1:You know Well, no, and I'm not trying to, you know. So yesterday I talked to well, it comes out tomorrow. But Noelle Stark, who is in her debut, love Camera Action, comes out today, actually today being the 22nd, and comes out today, actually today being the 22nd and now she's working on spec fiction. So I asked her okay, what is your definition of spec fiction? And she said really anything that's like not of this world, but then I guess dystopian sorry I'm sidetracking us, but dystopian could still be of this world. It's just like the world is ending, yeah, and it's interesting.
Speaker 2:I mean, I I don't even know that I have a good explanation for my own book in terms of where it's in that space.
Speaker 2:So that's fine, because that's where we all start right, because either way, I'm kind of shifting gears a little bit and this would be like more of a shift from the romance, the you know romantic comedy, contemporary romance space, and so I was like, well, shit, then I got to get this book written.
Speaker 2:So now I'm in a mad dash to finish it so that we can get it out on sub, and I've given myself unrealistic deadlines and timelines to try to complete this, and so, yeah, now I'm just like trying to finalize it and get it over to my agent so she can read it. She read the first 100 pages, gave me notes, but this is like the fastest process I've ever had, the earliest I've ever shared pages. Like it's been a just complete whirlwind of now sell the distomance, possibly as a trilogy, and then, on the heels of that, be able to then go take hopefully it's like a nice you know deal and then, on the heels of that, be able to then go take hopefully it's like a nice you know deal and then, on the heels of that, be able to sell, jump kind of separately. That's my hope. I haven't really discussed that with my agents, but in my mind We'll tell Elizabeth not the other Elizabeth not to listen to this.
Speaker 2:Nevermind, that's how it's going to go.
Speaker 1:So one thing that's always amazed me about you is your ability to just you just get it written, and you've always said that to me. Like Liz, just rush to the finish line, and then you know. Jesse Fine has famously said quickly and poorly, and I don't know why, I can't take any of your advice, but I can't Nevertheless. From love buzz to we'll talk about courtroom in a minute. But since you're switching genres so much, going into the dystopian, whatever we want to call it, how do you do that? What's your discipline practice to get there without? Does it help that you have a deadline, or do you not even have? Is it a self-imposed deadline or is your agent giving you a deadline? What's going on here?
Speaker 2:Well, more often than not it's self-imposed. Okay, part of that has been my personal goal of a book a year, which, you know, switching genres, switching houses may not happen this time and I have to just sort of accept that that. You know, this is one of the things in publishing that you can't control, but a lot of it is just my sort of sheer, like I need to push these things over the finish line because I want this to be my full time career and I know that takes a backlist and that takes continuation and it really is the marathon of it all. That's where the longevity comes from is just continuing to put books out right. So it's a lot of the pressure that I put on myself, but I can't say it's always healthy either.
Speaker 2:You know I'm not necessarily succeeding in the other areas of my life on all occasions as I try to do this in in unreasonable timelines.
Speaker 2:And I do worry that if you are rushing a process, are you getting the best version of a book and I think you could debate either way of. You know, in some instances, yes, you absolutely need the time to let something settle and give it space so your mind can work. And in other components, especially in that with this book that I'm writing right now, it's helpful, I think, to stay in the world, because there are so many components of world building in this that I don't have to do in contemporary romance, and so it's already hard enough to keep track of all of these things. And, as you know, I'm a pantser, and so it's all just sort of up here and I will go back and say, okay, wait, what is the world building that I've done on this XYZ piece? But a big component of it is just living in my head, and so staying really close to it on a daily basis has actually helped me stay more consistent in the draft, or at least that's what I'm telling myself as I try to do this really quickly.
Speaker 1:So this concept of world building really fascinates me. I'm convinced I'm not someone who would be capable of doing it. It just feels almost like you have too much creativity available to you and I am someone who might like. It's like pulling on a loose thread of a sweater and then it just never ends. I feel like that's the experience I would have. So what is that process, I mean? Is it like I just imagine? Do you just imagine a place or like? What does that even mean really, when people are like world building?
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting because I never thought I would be writing books like in this sci-fi distomance space. I've always considered myself a contemporary author, but it's been really fun to explore and I think the benefit of that is there are no rules. So, as I've written contemporary, I'm doing research on does this restaurant still exist? And when you walk down this street, I got to get it right. Right, it has to look exactly and be described exactly how it is, whereas in a world of your own making, you really get to write all of your own rules and so the street can look however I want the street to look.
Speaker 2:You know, that's kind of interesting, very um freeing. Yeah, build your own, because you don't. You aren't held to any sort of standard except for your own and the ones that you create. But on the other hand, it is sort of reining it in between the creativity needed to create a world versus going kind of out still having the tether to just these kind of core basic things that a reader can understand and not going too far off the deep end to lose people.
Speaker 2:I think that's sort of a constant struggle and battle of of building it correctly. But yeah, I've. I found it freeing to not have to exist in the real world yeah, no kidding, right.
Speaker 1:is it also just like, whereas with your contemporary work you need to make sure that you're staying consistent and true to the place that you are, where the characters are, with world building, do you have to make sure that you're not getting inconsistent, like as it progresses? Is that kind of just another layer, like do you find that challenging or fascinating or fun, or are you a masochist or what? What goes on there?
Speaker 2:all of the above. Yeah, I think we, as you, as you know, I'm a pantser and so world building as a pantser has proven challenging right, because some things you may decide halfway through drafting and then you need to go back and add, plant those seeds and make sure the things you've written are consistent with that, and I've had to do that several times. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes it's rewriting a whole scene. So, yeah, would it have been easier potentially to outline? Yes, but I am stubborn and I will continue my way through it and and knowing that it makes for, you know, the clunky first draft that it is, but I have had, I have found myself having to go back on many an occasion to fill something in that I only sort of discovered or realized or incorporated halfway through.
Speaker 1:Are the people that you run it by different than the people that you run?
Speaker 2:We're going to get to courtroom in a second, but the contemporary stuff too, yeah, so there are a few people who I think can and will and do give me amazing feedback, no matter what it is that I will lean on, and this is a small few group of people that I would share, that I share with. But, um, yeah, I did rely on the only person who's read beside my agent at this point is a romanticist author, okay, and who knows and understands this space and world building and and all of that. So, yeah, that that has shifted a bit, um, and I think, rightfully so yeah, no, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I want to come back to courtroom. What is the release date for this? May 20th? Okay, I knew it was coming soon because I got your tour schedule this morning, or at least the beginning of it, and you are back to back to back to back to back, and why is literally sold out and I do not have a spot.
Speaker 2:Well, there are several Arizona locations this time, which is fun, which is so cool, because when Love Buzz came out, literally was not open, I know the Jaya house was not open, so it's really really bookish shop was not open, right. So it's really cool now to be able to have so many more local spots to hit, which is really exciting because they weren't they literally didn't exist when my first book came out just three years ago. So that's really cool. But yeah, there's, there's like a lot of AZ spots, which is exciting.
Speaker 1:You know, anybody who watched it was called Jury Duty, right the infamous. Well, I don't know if it's infamous, but it was a great. Was it on Netflix? What was that on?
Speaker 2:No, it was on like um freebie or something. It was not one of the main.
Speaker 1:It wasn't the one, okay. Yeah, I mean I bet they're regretting that now, but anyway, with um Ronald Ronald Gladden, gladden, right, who was the jury, on the jury, and he thought it was a real trial. But it wasn't a real trial and James Marsden was on, it was a whole thing and if people haven't watched it is it still on, but I think you can still watch it. Yeah, I mean, I didn't think I was gonna get sucked in and I got so sucked in fantastic and they just announced a season two.
Speaker 2:They did, they did. So I don't know how they're gonna do it. I don't know if right part of it or not, or if they'll just sort of start a completely different cast. I don't know how you keep the same cast, but uh, yeah, I'll be really, really interested to see how it goes for a second season so he blurbed, which is just fun, I mean was that just fun, like, oh, it was so fun and it's so funny, because you always are like, okay, what out of the box things can we do right, yeah ask authors to blurb and I was like you know we were thinking about who are the real housewives or you know people from some of the comps and some of the shows that would be fun and you might as well make the ask.
Speaker 2:You know the worst they're going to say is no or not respond, and then you're no worse off than you were. And he was so gracious and read and blurbed and, you know, asked for a couple copies for his girlfriend. It was just so fun.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that was a really fun. Fun. That's something that you do that I admire, is you? Just? You just reach out to people, like I remember when World came out in Not so Perfect World and you wanted to reach out to various influencers who you really believed would enjoy the book, like you knew that they read that style of book and you just reached out and to your point. Sometimes that lands and sometimes it doesn't, and it usually has nothing to do with you, it's just what it is. But do you enjoy the marketing side of it? I'm not particularly Okay.
Speaker 2:I mean I will say I don't not enjoy it. It doesn't come naturally to me, right? Especially like the self-promotion piece, right. I think I'm of an age where that is not something that is normal or will ever sort of feel normal to me, yeah.
Speaker 2:But, I will say that you know publishing.
Speaker 2:One of the things you learn as you go this being my third book now coming out is what publishing can do and will do, and perhaps what they can't and won't.
Speaker 2:And so you sort of identify the areas where it would behoove you to fill in the blanks a little bit, and part of that is, you know, sliding into someone's DMs if there's a person that wouldn't necessarily be on, let's say, Harper's list of influencers because they're not necessarily book focused right, or because they are in a niche of something that is in your book, that has nothing to do with sort of the book world but would make a good overlap. So, yeah, I tend to find that every, with every book, there is something that is kind of unique. Or and that's what's fun too about each new book is that every process feels a little bit different. There's always something that it feels unique or fresh or interesting that you can explore, um, from a, from the marketing and publicity side, that is unique to that specific book so, from a writing standpoint, what do you feel like changed most between book one and courtroom?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, I'd like to think that as an author, I get better with every book. Just in terms of my writing, I do think it has become slightly easier and I know not every author would say that I'm sure it's coming at some future point where I sit down to write a book and I just am like oh, my gosh it's gone. I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 1:Call me when that happens, because I would just like to know that it happened, because so far that is not my experience with you.
Speaker 2:It's been. You know so, but I think a lot of it has to do with, like, the tricks and the way that you learn yourself as an author, and that comes from writing the book. So it's not even about whether your writing has improved or anything like that. It's also more about learning how to work with yourself instead of against yourself, and doing the things that work for you. I you we've talked about this before I'm a pantser.
Speaker 2:I do that because it's more fun to write that way for me. If I were to outline a book, that would take some of the joy and interest out of it and perhaps make me less committed and motivated to open my computer. Every day. I jump around as I'm writing because I go to whatever I think is particularly interesting in that moment, and these are the things that keep me from getting writer's block or, you know, avoiding opening the draft, and so it's a lot of learning what works for you and leveraging those things and making it okay to do those things for yourself, and I think that awareness and understanding of your own process comes from writing more books.
Speaker 1:So how do you? When you talk about writing what you want to write I know how that works for people who have an outline right, because they can just pick something on the outline that feels fun to write about today but how do you do that when you're not, when you're pantsing it and you don't even know, like is it just a scene that you see and you just figure out later how it all comes together? How do you do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, In part I think it's what you described. Just because you don't write an outline down on paper doesn't mean that you don't sort of have a general that's true.
Speaker 2:That's true, and so I don't necessarily know all of the connective tissue of how we get from here to here, but I know both of these things exist, or both of these points exist, and so it's really more just the okay. Well, I know the scene is coming and I'm excited to write it. I'm just going to write it and then I'll figure out how we get here. And does that mean I'll have to go back and edit it a little bit later because I didn't write it quite right once I figure out what that connective tissue is? Yeah, probably, but it keeps me writing and it keeps me going forward. So it's a little bit of both, I would say.
Speaker 1:How long or at what point do you typically and this obviously can change- but know what the end is going to be.
Speaker 2:I usually will know the beginning and the end and even write them as pretty much the first scenes, really, and it can change and sometimes that scene will stay but it'll get moved, or like the ending scene will stay and get moved up, or, you know it'll change in some capacity, the ending scene will stay and get moved up, or, um, you know it'll change in some capacity, but I usually have written opening scene and ending scene, ish, really early on okay, so then it's just figuring out like the connective, the in between.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, that's kind of fun. Maybe I should write the ending scene. Every time I talk to you. I'm like maybe this is the problem.
Speaker 2:Well, you and I have talked about this as well. You know, the people that I find in my life who struggle the most to get a draft completed are people who are editors, who do some sort of editing work in their real life, because they are used to looking for perfection and creating perfection and it's really hard to get out of your own way.
Speaker 1:I think too, like you know, it's interesting and I think it's counterintuitive, because I've always sort of been hard on myself, because as an editor I think I should be able to more easily figure out okay, we're going to go from this beat to this beat or whatever terminology you want to use. But you just said something interesting. I think it's like a blank slate is just more challenging for me than if someone gives me a bunch of puzzle pieces. A bunch of puzzle pieces, I can readily kind of try to figure out where they go, like what's an edge, what's a middle, what goes over it with the flowery stuff. But if, if, if I have nothing and some people are the exact opposite, where they love that blank page, it's like I don't know, do you have a? Do you get like when you're going? Does that give you more and more motivation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've had this conversation with other authors too and it is true, like people either love the editing phase and hate the drafting phase, or vice versa. I love drafting phase because there you first like there are no rules, you just get to go and kind of be in an unconscious stream and write whatever you want to write and let it be ugly and messy, and I'm comfortable with that. Yeah, and a part of that is like the trust in yourself that you will get it there at a future, at a future state. So, yeah, I love. I love that editing to me is still fun, but nothing replaces sort of the magic of. But I know a lot of authors who feel opposite.
Speaker 1:Well, and I remember when you said about Love Buzz I think it was. No, it wasn't Love Buzz, it was the book you wrote before Love Buzz. That didn't that sort of you stripped for parts, right, and it went in different things.
Speaker 2:Is that still making its way into new stuff or is it kind of parked away for now? I think I fully stripped it in my first few books, but again, I still don't think that it was a waste whatsoever. Oh my God, no Right, I mean we're just talking about. I now find myself in a similar position, even now, with a book that is completed and I don't have a plan for it. I don't know exactly when and where and how it's going to get published, or if it will. So that doesn't stop. You know necessarily if and when you get published or have an agent or have a deal. So it still is never, I don't think, a straight line.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, so I'm in a similar situation now.
Speaker 1:Well, we've talked about this several times. Like you know, people make the assumption that once you have an agent or once you have a deal, you're kind of in the machine in perpetuity, and you're really. I don't believe this statement. But the statement is you're only as good as your last book, right? Because there you never know if you're going to get a deal for the next, the next one. So what is your? What is some of the greatest? I guess not advice, because that sounds really trite, but that you've incorporated into your mindset in this space to keep yourself from feeling like your. I don't want to say your worth is dependent, but I've just heard people say you know, this book did so well of theirs and I really thought this book was even better, but the house passed on it or my agent isn't thrilled with it, and so now they start really second guessing and wondering if they had like a one hit wonder type of a situation. And how do they move on from there without feeling like they're starting all over again?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so true that it's not a done deal just because you get your agent or your first book deal.
Speaker 2:But I think, going back to your previous question around, like what motivates you, this is a big part of it, right, which is it's easy to put all your eggs in one basket of one book and then be disappointed when it doesn't deliver or how you wanted it to or do the things that you wanted or how you wanted it to or do the things that you wanted or expected it for it to do.
Speaker 2:The best remedy for that for me is having my head down working on the next thing, and so in a lot of ways, it is a coping mechanism on the next book because it's keeping me from spiraling about the one that. So, for example, you know the courtroom drama is coming out in in less than a month. We're shoring up details for a tour. You know I could be looking at numbers constantly, I could be doing all of these things, but instead I'm really focused on getting this next book completed. So it does take some of the pressure off of of having to think about sort of all of these things of oh gosh, if this book doesn't do well, or you know what it's going to mean for my career and right, it's, it's that, it's that, that just keep going type of mentality, I think.
Speaker 1:Well, and more often than not, that's what I'm hearing. It's not a hundred percent, but it's like well, so what are you working on now? The next project you know while this one is are you? I can't remember if we've ever talked about this. Are you an everyday writer? I try to be Okay.
Speaker 2:I can't say that I am consistently, but I try to be?
Speaker 1:Can you do it in short bursts or do you need? Especially with this world building thing, do you need time to kind?
Speaker 2:of get into it, and then the ideal would be to have large chunks of time, but that's just not always feasible. I will write sitting in the pickup line at school, I will open it up and write a sentence while we're watching a basketball game, like I, you know. You have to just sort of make the time, and I think that's another piece that I see a lot of people struggle with, which is I need to get my coffee set up and I need to have the mood lighting and I need to have and I get it right. That's ideal situation, but life doesn't allow that most more often than not. So I do what I can where I can, and I it's truthfully, most of my books are written in stolen moments.
Speaker 1:Like in your notes app.
Speaker 2:Oh, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you incorporate stuff that happens around you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally. I think every author does, right. I mean, we're really just observers of the world and everything that you're putting into your book is something that you consciously or subconsciously have experienced in some capacity.
Speaker 1:So yeah, absolutely, I eavesdrop on people's conversation.
Speaker 2:Oh, 1000% yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm like I don't know if I can make up dialogue that good, so I'm here and see everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am listening to the table next to me is conversation, while also engaging with you, right, while also seeing what the hostess is doing. Yeah, I'm, I'm very much that person.
Speaker 1:This is like what we were trained for as moms. Yeah, I feel we can hear one thing. We have two ears that, of course, listen independently, and then our eyes, oh yeah, it's a whole thing.
Speaker 2:It's like that funny. You know how the there's like that thing where a guy sits facing the door so that if there is like a something that were to happen, I prefer taking that seat. I'm like I will notice it way earlier than you ever would.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, as people are coming in, you're like I will notice it way earlier than you ever would. Yeah, yeah, as people are coming in, you're like, well, I'm going to need them to sit over it. This looks like it's going to be a good conversation. I just I love listening to people talk too. You know, it's just fascinating. It kind of is Okay. So what are you most excited about with courtroom? That either you weren't excited about or, like maybe something you were nervous about about the other two, or just in general what am I excited about?
Speaker 2:well, I think, um, with this book I it's really things that I enjoy and not to say that there weren't those things in my first two books. But, like I love reality tv and so wanting to put little Easter eggs in it for people who are Bravo fans and who watch Real Housewives or Vanderpump or whatever it is there's, there are Easter eggs all over this book, and so that was really fun, because it was sort of like a secret code for people who love those shows, like I do, which was really fun. And so what's your favorite?
Speaker 1:one. Do you have a favorite? Real Housewives? I do, which was really fun. And so what's your favorite?
Speaker 2:one. Do you have a favorite? Housewives, yeah, or any reality show, oh gosh, I. I was a big Vanderpump rules fan, um, so I'm sad that's over. But I, what? Are you watching the Valley? I am watching the Valley, even though I can't stand Jax Taylor and I feel like that's just. I hate supporting him, even with a view, but I watch it. And then Real Housewives. I love Beverly Hills. I think Dorit had her moment this season. Who?
Speaker 1:did.
Speaker 2:Dorit.
Speaker 1:Oh, I think I didn't see this season.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, she came into her own this season. Okay, I love Bose on that season as well. She's been such a great addition. So so, yeah, there's a few that I watch religiously, some that I will pop in and out of, but those are a few of the ones that I watch pretty closely.
Speaker 1:And how much did that influence? I mean, obviously it influenced, like the courtroom thing I mean is predicated. You want to give a high level summary here?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the main, the woman on trial. So Cindy and Damon are the two main characters. They are jurors on what becomes a sequestered jury for a high-profile murder trial. And the woman on trial is a reality TV star who is accused of murdering her husband, and she is on a show called Authentic Moms of Malibu, which is essentially built from the Real Housewives franchise.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, in the beginning of it, because I've read the, I don't know if it's chapter one or the, I'm not sure, but when they're in the, all the jurors are in the courtroom and they're like you can see it, I can still see it, and it's been months and months and months since I've read it it's. I can't wait to read the full thing, because it was so um, it was just captivating.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. Yeah, it was really fun to write the courtroom components of it and, um, you know, finding that balance between the courtroom scenes and the love relationship is challenging because you're trying to basically write two books in one and combine them together and have them feel like one story instead of separate stories. So that was a challenge. But yeah, it was really fun to sort of write the book that was like an homage to it's dedicated to the Bravo holics. Like it was very much like you know when they say, like write the book that you want to read, this was this. Was that for me?
Speaker 1:Are you the type of writer as though we can put you all in, put us all into boxes, but where each book you want to challenge yourself to do something different? Is that intentional that you do that? It's not necessarily intentional, but it always happens, it always happens.
Speaker 2:There's one point in a book where I think, oh shit, why did I do this? And then I have, you know, I'm doing research on something that I know nothing about in world. It was video game design, which I have. No, you know, I don't play video games. I had no knowledge of that. But then, you know, had to dive deep into that world. And this one, it was the courtroom component. I've never served on a jury. I I used to very much want to when I was younger. Um, I, you know, and it's you're spending hours of time researching very basic things. They're gonna be one line in the book, right? So yeah, there's always a component. And then you know in this book that we that I had you read that has not seen the light of day yet. It was, it's set largely in Portugal and so it was a bunch of research on Portugal. So you know, there's always that something that you sort of decide and then realize well, now I have to deliver on this.
Speaker 1:I feel like that called for a trip to Portugal. I'm going For real.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, my husband and I have been, which was where some of the locations were based on. And then we are taking the kids in June, which is part of why my book tour is so back to back, because, ok, I was like I will give you guys these two weeks, can we please do as much as we can? And then we are leaving directly after.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh my God that is I'm.
Speaker 2:I really want to go to Portugal. Yeah, this is my kids' first out of the country trip, which is really, you know, fun and special, and I will be doing a ton of book research as I'm there.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I can't wait to see photos of that. Yeah, and have you tell me I should maybe move there. So what are you reading now?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh. Well, I've been trying to read in this space a little bit. And then so Nisha J Tooley, who is a romance author, who's a friend of mine we were talking about who do you have read now for you in a different. She's one of the people that I've been relying on to read and she made a great recommendation to me, which was so this book is a little sexier than you know my contemporaries, and we were talking about the scenes, and she was like well, one thing that I like to do, which I thought was great advice, was she's like I always listen to something that slightly like goes there a little bit more than what I'm writing as inspiration, and I thought that was really great advice. So I'm listening to Sierra Simone's Salt Kiss right now Okay, very horny book, it's fantastic, um, and it's great like sex scene 101. Um, right, a really steamy, really fantastic sex scene. So that's um, I'm listening to that right now, sort of in preparation for for some of the scenes in this one. And then I just listened to.
Speaker 2:I'm doing a lot of audiobooks. Right now I have Oathbound, which I have not started. I have the physical copy of that, which is that by Tracy Dion. It was a best-selling um series. I am so excited to start it. I've heard nothing but good things. I have the book but I haven't been able to start it yet. Um, so yeah, I'm kind of reading more in the sort of fantasy yeah, opium, sci-fi, space.
Speaker 1:I would like to start. I never thought I would begin, or well, I've started reading. I've only read one book in that space, which is Akatar, so it's like very, it's like one right, but lately I just feel like I want to try some more. Yeah, and it's funny.
Speaker 2:I didn't intentionally set out to to make this shift, but you know, state of the world, all of that.
Speaker 2:You sit down and write a rom-com and I just didn't have it in me. I mean, I read, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, I'm gold, and I think a lot of people right now, like I will tell you, writing this book has been a great place to channel my rage and, just know, throw it into this book. So it's been very cathartic, um, and I just don't think I would have gotten that same release in a contemporary romance right now. It doesn't mean that I won't circle back to that and I think the great thing about publishing today, you know, in a previous era you were sort of only allowed to write, you know, in one space and if you were a contemporary romance author you had to stay a contemporary romance author. And now we're seeing authors more and more explore new spaces and write in different genres and it's more acceptable and it's more widely seen and that's really exciting too, because there are less limits in terms of what you can write now.
Speaker 1:Right, well, and I think sometimes I'm actually. I have one more question, actually, because I'm curious. Sometimes, when authors switch genres, they adopt a pen name so that they can. Maybe there are myriad reasons they do that, but you're clear, are you not doing that, or have you not thought about it, or are you?
Speaker 2:I mean, I haven't gotten that far yet my first inclination is no, yeah, just because I think it's all still you, me, and like, if you look at like a Geneva Rose, for example she's an example of someone who writes across multiple spaces and you know she has a great author brand that is all still just her. Yeah, I don't, I don't know, I haven't thought about it much, but I would, I would like to kind of be like this is, you know, give more access to people who want to do the same thing, you know?
Speaker 1:I. I agree. I can't maintain a memory of what my name is like regularly, so if I have to switch, it sounds like a lot of work, it feels like all the Instagram handles and all the different things.
Speaker 1:It just feels like a lot, I think. I think it's there's no right or wrong and and people who make whatever choice, they make whatever choice is best for them, and I think that's the most important thing. It's just interesting to hear what people's thoughts are and I love. I love it when people will go a certain way, like you said, to try to create more access for other people to make that same choice. They're not necessarily comfortable being the leader in doing that, but they're willing to ride on the.
Speaker 2:But it is a lot of what you just said, which is that sounds like a lot of work.
Speaker 1:It really does. I mean, yeah, it's enough work, as you well know, by this point to just maintain one author platform.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it used to be again kind of of a different era at this point where you know it would have been taboo to write romance or write whatever it is that you write, and you know you'd want to keep that very separate from, like, your corporate job or your corporate world. My clients I work in HR, of all things right my clients read my books and you know I just don't think that that separation really has to exist much anymore. I know there are certain niche areas where it does, and for good reason, but yeah, I think more and more it's acceptable and for people to just have be multifaceted in that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've definitely heard of people. You know instances where authors are. You know they work for a high caliber company of some sort and they need to separate those two things. But well, I cannot wait to have all the dates written down back to back to back. I will go all the way to Gilbert price?
Speaker 2:Well, there's one in Scottsdale which shouldn't, which isn't as far for you, right Poisoned Pen, oh it's as far but.
Speaker 1:I'll go there too. Yeah, maybe I'll just get a room over there.
Speaker 2:You might as well come to Tucson too.
Speaker 1:Exactly. I'll just move to the east side for four days. It'll be great. But thank you, and of course you have to come back. You know this is normally the Neely show. I mean, your name is brought up so much it's it's borderline.
Speaker 2:I don't even know if it's embarrassing, but no, I'm so grateful to you and it's really fun. I think one of the best things about this whole process and journey and author journey is, like, all the people that you meet and like have been with me since my debut say it like it's been so long ago. It's not that long ago, but you know how long ago was it, though? Um, so love buzz came out in 2023, so it's actually only been two years. That's what I thought, okay, which it feels like a lifetime ago because you keep churning out the books. Yeah, it feels like a lifetime ago, but it's really fun and cool to see, like you know, people who have, like, early readers and people that you found early in this process be with you on it and be genuinely, you know, excited for the developments, and, yeah, it's one of the parts of this truly.
Speaker 1:I agree, like just connecting with other people and also these great bookstores that are opening. Yeah, I can Like just connecting with other people and and also these great bookstores that are opening. Yeah, I can't wait to get over there for those. We need some of those over here. What's going on with the West Valley Move?
Speaker 2:or open a bookstore. Oh, or open a bookstore. I love that Could happen Well thank you.
Speaker 1:I will put all of your links, as per usual, in the show notes. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, this is your friendly reminder to follow or subscribe, leave a quick review and share it with someone you know has a great story or message but isn't sure what to do next. Also, remember to check out publishaprofitablebookcom for book writing resources and tips and to see all the ways we can work together to get your book out into the world. Again, thanks so much for listening and I'll talk with you again soon.
