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Write the Damn Book Already
Writing and publishing a phenomenal book doesn’t have to be ridiculously complicated or mind-numbingly overwhelming. From myths and misconceptions to practical tips and sound strategies, Elizabeth Lyons (author, book writing coach, book editor, and founder of Finn-Phyllis Press), helps writers feel more in control of and comfortable with the business of book publishing. Her interviews with fellow authors discussing their writing processes and publishing journeys aim to help you untangle YOUR process so you can finally get your story into the world.
Write the Damn Book Already
Ep 120: Writing a Novel (While Your House Falls Apart) with A. Morini
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What do a flooded house, a nine-month (and still going) renovation, and a debut novel have in common? Angelika Morini.
In this episode, Angelika shares what it actually looked like to finish her first novel, Do You See Me Now?—while living in chaos (read: house stripped to the studs). We talk about why character development can feel a lot like falling in love with someone mysterious and how launching a book is less of a finish line and more like Mile One of a marathon you didn’t know you signed up for.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:
- The (not so) glamorous reality of writing and editing during a home renovation from hell
- Why marketing Book One while dreaming up Book Two can feel like a bit of a tightrope act
- The decision to write in English (even though she’s German)
- Weaving the complexities of post-reunification Germany into her novel
- The way she allowed her characters to show up and surprise her (no outline, no problem!)
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Write the Damn Book Already is a weekly podcast featuring interviews with authors as well as updates and insights on writing craft and the publishing industry.
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Elizabeth Lyons than absolutely necessary Because, let's face it, some overthinking, second-guessing and overwhelm is going to come with the territory, if you're anything like me. In short, I love books and I believe that story and shared perspective are two of the most impactful ways we connect with one another. A few things I don't believe in Gimmicks, magic bullets and swoon-worthy results without context, as in. Be sure to reveal that a result took eight years or required a $30,000 investment in ads, because those details are just as important. What I believe in most as an author, the long game is the shortcut For more book writing and publishing. Tips and solutions. Visit publishaprofitablebookcom or visit me over on Instagram at ElizabethLionsAuthor. Well, hi, everybody, and welcome back or welcome in.
Speaker 1:It's always fun for me to talk to somebody who engaged in a massive home renovation whilst working on their book or working on the editing of their book. What's not fun is when they're working on a major home renovation. That was unexpected, because the whole house flooded right as the book was being finished and then right as it went into edit. I don't know if there's a worse time, but that's exactly what happened to Angelica Marini, whose book Do you See Me Now? It's her debut novel. I had the great privilege of editing. I absolutely loved this book, highly recommend it and, of course, I've got a link to it down in the episode notes. And Angelica, who writes under the name A Marini, really, really, really stayed committed to honing this manuscript when she had absolutely every understandable and justifiable reason to say I'm going to need to put this on hold for about six months. So I would get emails from her that would be answers to questions or some edits that she had made right along with. Well, today we got hardwood floors put in, and that was after several months of not even being able to live in the house because, again, it had been flooded. So I'm thrilled that we finally had the opportunity to sit down and chat about the writing of it, about her characters and how they evolved, which was a really interesting part of the conversation.
Speaker 1:Angelica is German and she wrote the book in English, which is also something that we chatted about, and it's also made the marketing of the book interesting because, as someone, she lives in Germany, she is German and while her primary language in her home and in her work is English, most people who live in Germany are speaking German, so she's not only got to find a way to get the book out to people, but she has to find a way to get the book out to people who might be German but speak and read in English, so that's added a little extra legwork to the whole marketing game. I've put all of Angelica's links and all of the resources that we talked about in the episode notes, so let's just get right on with the conversation. Full disclosure I edited Do you See Me Now? Right? So because I edited it, I'm intimately familiar with what was going on in your world while we were trying to get this whole thing finished, all the things that were happening, all the things that were happening.
Speaker 1:And I love this because I don't love it. It's so easy for us as writers to be like I can't do this right now. I have other things going on, and to say you had other things going on is a bit of an understatement.
Speaker 1:I had other things going on. Yes, like a major house renovation, that was unexpected.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So my house got flooded and, and there's normal life too. No, I mean I, when I talk to other other people, of course there's like oh, you have a job, oh, you're a mom, or you're this, that and the other. So that in itself I always feel. When I see it in other people, I'm like, how do you even, like, I read people's read count. You know how many pages they read this week? Right, and I'm so impressed, like, how do they even, right, how do they even, right, managed to to read that that much, not to mention write something? And, yeah, our house got flooded.
Speaker 2:That wasn't planned, and then we had to renovate two-thirds of it and we're still like, literally, uh, since we last spoke, so I think two days ago, they put the baseboards down in the in the ground floor. So the basement, ignore the basement. We have doors now so we can close it and ignore the basement. So eight months, in nine months, it's a full pregnancy. Uh, into the journey. We're still not done, but, but indeed so I, I refinished our editing, um, I took your course on how to launch the book. I launched the book and you know, the other day, uh, probably yesterday only I read this quote like or was it a video by I don't know Mel Robbins or somebody you know like? You're not an imposter, you are a beginner.
Speaker 2:And I keep telling myself that how did I not think about what happens after you launch a book? You know, I was so focused on just getting to launch date and just finishing this, finish the edit phase, finish the launch phase and it's like having, like having a baby right, and then you have the baby and like, oh my god, nobody told what, like, you have to do something right?
Speaker 1:well it's. You know I and you commented on this um weeks ago. I put on my stories a question as a published author for those of you who are published what do you wish you had known? Or something in that vein. And every single response, angelica, every single one, was not just me, yeah, it was not just you, was I wish I knew. And it was some variation of, like you know that that so much marketing was going to be involved, or that the launch is just the beginning. Or I say let's not talk about that right now to a huge degree, because if you don't have a book out, then we don't have a book to promote. So we have to take it in phases and let's focus on where our feet are right now, which is in the writing or in the editing. And yet I also encourage people and we talked about this to start talking about your book.
Speaker 2:True, and I mean you have this whole course on like what to do to when you, how to launch a book, right, Right, I honestly admit I did not look at it because all I wanted to do is, besides my construction site and normal life being crazy, just to hit the launch button. That's all I wanted and I was like I'm going to figure it out when I get there. And then I got there, I was like, oh darn, you know, there's all these things that I could have done, should have done, but I'm just trying to be compassionate with myself because even if I had known, I'm not sure I actually could have done them in that moment.
Speaker 1:You know, the whole could have, would have, should have thing is really a challenge, because I don't think I'm very conscientious about reminding people, including myself, there's Monday morning. Quarterbacking is a real thing in in every industry, I think, and we can look back and say, well, if I would have done that, this might have been easier and therefore I should have done that. And I don't think that's really a fair statement, because I think we're all doing the best that we can with the knowledge and the time that we have. And so, yes, for your next book, you will probably choose to do something, but that's how we all grow in this, in this industry.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. So like what?
Speaker 1:was most overwhelming for you. What did you expect to happen when you launched the book? That didn't happen?
Speaker 2:I didn't. Honestly, I didn't expect too much and I tend to not do that because I, I think I have a major fear of being disappointed. So I tend to not like expect anything. Right, I try and then, secretly, we do expect something On the surface. On the surface, you know. Know. I was sure this was not going to be Oprah's book like recommendation of the next month, right. So I didn't expect a lot to happen. But what I literally didn't expect is probably the work I now have to put in right and the the the different like ways to you can promote a book. So I, I talked with my husband.
Speaker 2:I said the first few weeks kind of threw me off a bit, um, because I felt a bit overwhelmed with how, how am I like? I, I want to be a writer, I am a writer, right, but but now I have to be all these, to your point, I have to be all these other things. I have to be a book. But now I have to be all these. To your point, I have to be all these other things. I have to be a book promoter. I have to be an Instagram expert. I have to be a marketeer. I have to be, you know, uh, somebody who writes amazing emails to their followership. That isn't existent at the beginning, right? So? So who am I writing this to? How do I find these people?
Speaker 2:So so that I found a bit overwhelming because, on the one hand, it's something new, so I'm a beginner, so I don't quite, I'm not in my territory, I'm not in my comfort zone, which is fine because that's where we grow and on the other hand, it isn't exactly what I most enjoy.
Speaker 2:So, you know, in my head, kind of book number two is forming and shaping, and I find that so exciting and I want to get back to writing, you know. But then in the few minutes that I literally have in a day, I'm doing something on Instagram. So that's, I guess that's. I didn't expect that because it was just not part of my world yet. And now that I know, I think next time I will go about it with more planning, more conscious and also with more ease and peace. I guess you know, and just I know it's not a sprint, I know it's a marathon, and people say that, you say that, and I'm starting to understand what it means, right, because it, you know, but in a good way, in a good way, in a way that gives me more peace of mind, you know because and patience exactly, and I know I said this to you when we talked during the editing phase.
Speaker 2:To me, success was just writing the book. That was my success, because I didn't even know I was writing a book until I was writing a book, and then, only only when it was done, I was like I want to do something with it now and that's when we started working together. Yeah, so I think success is also working through all my anxiety about publishing a book and everything. So the fact that I wrote a book, I published a book, it's out there, it's a fact. You know that NSF, that success. And now I have, you know, first people reading it, first responses, and that's success. And then success right now is these small steps and steps, continuous steps every day, and maybe in the future success is something different or bigger, but right now I'm just trying to give myself some space to breathe and not feel like I have to run at 180 miles an hour and not feel like I have to run at 180 miles an hour.
Speaker 1:I mean I think you have to and I hate that phrase like have to, must should need. You know, these are words and phrases that I strafe, like I try really hard to stay away from them. I just think, for our own mental health, we really do have to. We don't have to do any particular thing, but we do have to make a choice about what the thing is that we're going to do. So right Like on social media platforms.
Speaker 1:The idea and I'm so glad that more and more people are saying this now, at least the people I'm listening to- and I'm probably listening to them for a reason, like you don't have to be on Instagram, tiktok, and I'm probably listening to them for a reason, like you don't have to be on Instagram, tiktok X, youtube Like you don't have to be.
Speaker 2:And that's so. I heard you say that on other people and that's so soothing, because I couldn't if I wanted to, and the only literally. I'm not a social media person. I swear. I don't have any social media accounts, except my cat has an Instagram account. That's the only reason.
Speaker 1:I know how.
Speaker 2:Instagram works.
Speaker 1:Well, has an Instagram account. That's the only reason I know how Instagram works. Well. What's so funny is when you would comment on my and I'd go to like my report or whatever whatever you call that thing where it says people have commented and it would say Eva the cat and I would have to do this conversion in my head. So I don't know if you or anyone listening does this, but we get to know people based on their handle, not on their actual name. So now I know you.
Speaker 1:You're in jail, and now I have an official pro, like I have a profile right, like you're a real, but for so long it would be like, oh, there's even a cat again, like that's how I knew you, um, you know. And so if there's another person and oh, I know who I'm thinking of, it's NL Blanford. I hope I'm getting that name right, but her given name is Natasha, but her handle on Instagram is NL Blanford and she comments a lot on my stuff and she's just delightful. She's actually coming on the podcast in a couple of weeks to talk about her novels and I just call her NL, not now. Now I call her Natasha, but for the longest time I'd be like there's a no, because that's how we. So it's such an interesting. That's a whole separate conversation about the interesting world of social media. But to your point, it is enough work to stay. I guess I don't want to say relevant, but to stay active on just on one platform.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I wouldn't. I mean on Instagram. In fact, I met this other writer and we're exchanging and we're exchanging tips, and I'm so impressed because I think she chose to let go of her job, move to the wilderness, and I think so. I want to quote it right. I think it's Kelly in the wilderness, I think it's her handle, so I I want to quote it right. I think it's kelly in the wilderness, I think it's her handler, but I do want to quote it right.
Speaker 1:and she just launched her fantasy book okay, stormbound, I think and I'll look it up and put it in the episode notes so we can all follow kelly from the wilderness.
Speaker 2:I'll send you the right links and then we can do this properly. But I think she chose to focus only on this you know, and really immerse herself in the writing and really immerse herself in pushing her book. She's got the draft for book two ready already. You know how amazing is that. She's looking for agents and of course that's the way to go, you know, and sometimes I'm wondering should I be doing that? But right now I have a day job and and apart from a child and a child exactly, and a house to renovate.
Speaker 2:But you know, so I think there's and there's. None of these are right or wrong, they're just different. But they kind of determine the 24 hours you have in the day that you can then dedicate to, to marketing your book, to doing all these other amazing things. And just for me, it's a fact that I only have so many minutes in the day where I can creatively think about this. And it's not just you don't want to just repost the cover of your book, right? You want to kind of engage and have like some level of content and grow your followership and all that. And I'm really only learning to do that. And so there's only so much time, unfortunately, I can spend, and inside of me, what I would really love to do is just sit down at my computer and write, you know.
Speaker 1:As would all of us. Exactly. I really think, like the more people I talk to, we love, we all seemingly and I don't mean to generalize, but this does seem like the majority love certain things A, writing, b, I mean except when we don't and B connecting right, Connecting with. So if you're doing an event, a book event, to connect with people, it's not a slimy thing like well, I'm connecting so I can sell you my book. It's just we love that genuine connection and conversation. And so sometimes social media sits like in the middle of those two things.
Speaker 1:Because, if you're trying, I've been watching your social media evolve and it's been fun because, again, when we first connected, you were Eva the cat. I know you have this beautiful, very soft looking gray cat who I'm assuming his name is Eva yes, okay, with two E's. So from there you started like dipping your toe in and and showing the cover of your book and things, and then from there you started doing some reels and you started showing other author and like what are you reading right now? And you just I'm watching, you watch other people and get inspired and think, well, how could I do something like that? And so that's what we all do is try. I mean, you know that's what the majority does I don't want to say everyone, but so I want to ask you a questions. Do you see me now?
Speaker 1:I loved so, so much, and one of the things that I'm noticing about myself as a reader and as an editor, but specifically as a reader right now, is I'm really enjoying memoir that reads like fiction. So I believe that memoir needs to read like fiction across the board, like period, but it's almost when someone takes creative liberties where their memoir is, they don't need it to be clear that it's their story. So they take their story and they turn it into fiction. So it's like it's like an inspired by, not a based on, type thing, and that's how I saw. Do you See Me Now? And I'm curious. I mean, is that how you see? Do?
Speaker 2:You See Me Now, in between, I would say I've never written a memoir, obviously, but the story that I'm telling is not my life, so in that way it's not a memoir. Clearly it's a fictional story or fictional characters. But I do think, and I have to think every author does that no, and maybe not. Maybe, if you're really into world building and I don't know, you set your story on a different planet. Maybe not so much, but even then I would imagine that every author tells some sort of universal truth or something that people can relate to. Otherwise it's not an engaging story. So either that and or, um, it tells something I can't imagine. None of the other authors put their own little stories in there, their own memories, their own, you know. So, so that that is where it all gets very, very blended and it's not.
Speaker 2:It's not a memoir, right, it's a fictional story. Of course, I drew on part of my own experiences. So obviously, part of the story is set in Eastern Germany. So recent German history, right, and the experiences that people went through, and I'm not trying to describe my experience, but I think there's some universal truth to experiences of people that they had, oh my gosh, 100%. And so I'm trying to convey that. But obviously a lot of the feelings, a lot of some of the memories are mine, and then some are entirely uniquely invented, like characters that just came to me and I think we talked when we were talking about, you started writing your next book and you know how about? I don't know. Do you see the story all up front? I'm not like this book grew by itself. It came very organically. I had no idea.
Speaker 1:Wow, can you pass some of that over here, because it is not happening over here. Angelica, it's not happening.
Speaker 2:And for me, wrote itself. Yes, it just wrote itself out. And every time you I was real mad a question I should say. You would say something like but yeah, but where are you going with this, or why is this character doing this? And I thought I had it on paper, I just didn't. But the moment you asked me, I saw it, it's clear, like a movie, and I just had to write it out, right. So so it's really like a movie playing in my head and then all these pieces come together and then we had to write it out, right. So it's really like a movie playing in my head and then all these pieces come together and then we had to shuffle them around a bit to fit them in the right places, and that's how that came about.
Speaker 2:So I wouldn't say it's a memoir, but it certainly is inspired by me. And if you ask me, who am I, I'm in all of these characters. Part of me is in all of these characters. You know which I think is is probably I don't know, maybe it's normal, maybe it's not normal, but I couldn't put myself as one person in this book, because I'm not. I'm a part of this person. I'm a part of this person. I wish I was this person, you know, and I wish I had this person. So I wrote it in my book.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that just gave me like all the, the, the, the goosebumps, because I I recognize to a degree that that's what I'm doing, because I'm actually exploring all these different facets of myself, but I'm exploring them Like I'm writing. You know, in my author community last week someone said you're, you're writing the, you're working on the book and the book is working on you, and I thought it was a beautiful way to express a sentiment that we've all been talking about for a long time, which is like you write your way, you come up with questions while you're writing, it's like what, and so that experience is different for everyone. But did you feel that at all with these characters?
Speaker 2:The way you're describing it right now sounds like it's an intellectual exercise. You come up with a question, try to answer the question're exploring, I think, for me, the process and the way I started out and I told you this right, because I'm qualified as a conscious parenting coach in Dr Shefali's institute and I know one of the other authors too.
Speaker 2:Janet Filber and I went through her program and it just really reconnected me with a lot of my emotions, with my feelings, and I started writing as a way to express my feelings, feel my feelings and literally, kind of, you know, it's like this three-dimensional thing that you can hold in your hand, you can turn it around by writing about it. No, and I wish you know, you can't have the gesture in an audio, but you get the point right. So you get to look at it. So we're gesturing. Yeah, exactly, you get to look at it from different angles, you get to explore it. And that's how I started writing.
Speaker 2:And when I realized this might be a book, you know, I was hoping. I guess my first hope for the book was that it would make people feel something. Because it made me feel something, feel something, because it made me feel something. And, to answer your question, I think I came at many of these questions not from an intellectual but from a feeling level. The feeling was there and then I started to describe it and I built the scene around the feeling. So I don't know, I'm hoping that the book conveys some feelings, because otherwise I didn't go a good job.
Speaker 1:And the other thing I told you and I told I told you this while while I was editing it, and I I this is another aspect of books, fiction or otherwise, that I absolutely love is when I can learn. You know, I'm not inherently a history, what someone would call a history buff. However, I have found that I love to learn about history because something that someone writes about intrigues me and I think I want to know more about that, and so I was asking you lots of questions. I mean, I needed some clarification, because you do talk in the beginning about the Eastern and Western Germany, and I found myself being really curious about that Germany. And I found myself being really curious about that and then also realizing that, as you said a few minutes ago, you being German, right, you know the history of that, whereas the reader might not ie me.
Speaker 1:And so how can we, without making it a book, a history book, without making it bland and sterile, and, like you know, the war happened, how can we infuse the book with some of that information that might even lead the reader to become more curious? I mean, not more than you need it for the story, right, and there's a fine balance there, but it really intrigued me, like it really made me think about your main characters. You know Hannah, your main character, her her journey in a. She had some different like internal conflicts going on, just based on how and where she was raised, and I think that that's something that so many people today are navigating too.
Speaker 2:I think many people, I have to think, that grew up in Eastern Germany probably have that at some level. I mean, I made it more of an extreme story, right To bring the point across. Not everybody was affected in that way, but I do think that if you grew up in a certain way and I saw both, because I was still a child when Germany was reunited, so I saw how Eastern Germany ticked there was a lot of indoctrination, you know, and actually the other day I was joking with my parents If you look at the comic books that the children got, there was the Russian soldiers in there who were your friends and you know, like early on in kindergarten you would read the stuff and it was normal, right, and so there was this kind of indoctrination from the start. You grew up in the system and you thought this is the, this is the right system, right, and then it collapses and you learn this. There's another system that kind of took over, because now they're right and we were wrong. And I think it affected many people. And so I was a child, I was nine years old when Germany got reunited.
Speaker 2:Um, obviously many people who were older, or even young people, but who were older, maybe in their adolescence or something, maybe I might have perceived it even more, might have perceived also the, the restrictions of the system, a lot more than I did as a child, right, but I wanted to to capture that. At first it wasn't even that big of a part of my story, but then I was I realized that, like, but I wanted to capture that, at first it wasn't even that big of a part of my story, but then I realized that. But I have to explain where all this comes from. And then I was thinking but where does it come from? And only then did I realize I have to put that on paper, because otherwise why would people understand the conflict of the hero or heroine? Heroine sounds like a drug, but that's how you pronounce it, right. Maybe we should add that in now it does. Yeah, yeah, well, and I and that was.
Speaker 1:That was one of the pieces that we worked on um a bit. You know was? It was there, but it wasn't there enough right at the beginning to make it clear why Hannah was having these challenges with going to and I'm not going to give away anything, obviously, but going to Europe. And then you know where she ends up and why she feels kind of stuck and stagnant and like I'm at a crossroads, where are we going? And I think that's just such a relatable feeling right now for so many women of my age. Certainly it's like okay, here we are, somehow, now what's next? Right, and I? I told you that I and this is a bold statement to make, because one of my favorite books and my favorite stories is the Alchemist, and I really felt the energy of I'm not comparing your book to the Alchemist, I'm not anythinging that but I felt that same energy. Like in the Alchemist the main character is a boy and it's a male character, and in your book it's a female character and I I just felt that same energy.
Speaker 2:And that's such an honor. I wasn't thinking about it when I wrote it. Sure, of course you brought it up, right yeah?
Speaker 1:Obviously, very, very I know, because you were like, oh God, is that bad, like is this going to be right? No, it just that's what it brought up for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it just that's what it brought up for me. I, yeah, and you know, I think you were saying like being at a point where you're like where do I go from here? But I think it's also to really understand what got me here.
Speaker 1:I think this is how much how the book starts.
Speaker 2:No, like looking like introversion. Looking back, what got me here? How did I get here? Before I take my next step, I really want to get it because I need to understand myself, otherwise I might just go in the next wrong direction again. You know, and I don't want to do that so kind of really deep diving into yourself and it's um, I'm, I started a reading round. It's not close yet. So in Germany there's it's something like books route or something like that in in the U? S, but in Germany it's called lovely books, and so you can put, you know, 20 books up for a raffle and you give people a question to answer and then everybody can apply and then you pick the people who win the book and they review the book afterwards oh, okay and the question that I posed is because in the book, hannah takes her sister on a hero journey, right?
Speaker 2:so I just asked a simple question who would you take on a hero journey? And I'm not even sure many people know what a hero journey is, but I'm getting amazing answers. You know, everybody is like really by themselves, to really like focus on themselves. Some people won't take their mom, some people won't take their best friend. Several people said I'm going to take my partner, but then maybe I go alone. Right, right, one person wanted to take their dog. So amazing.
Speaker 1:And right right, one person wanted to take their dog. So amazing and but everything is. I have a friend who'd want to take her bird like we won't even get into that.
Speaker 2:Right, cats, cats is always good. A hero journey is such a to me and I did a hero journey, so, and that's how, how I put it in the book, because right that firsthand what is that service called?
Speaker 1:you, said it's one thing in germany and one thing in the us. What is it oh? It's called lovely, said it's one thing in Germany and one thing in the US. What is it oh?
Speaker 2:it's called lovely books. It's just a platform where everybody shares book reviews and um but this is I think it's specifically German, if I'm not mistaken. Okay, but you pointed me to to other such it's. It's probably like good similar to goodreads.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, exactly it's like a good gotcha, and there I'm only just starting out. Okay, I'm like learning, like all the platforms and everything, and what can you do where? And when I found this, I thought this was so nice because you can make it a bit of a yeah, you get to pick the people who actually will review your book based on. Also, you can see what other books they reviewed, and that Okay, okay, first, they show an interest in your book based on.
Speaker 2:Also, you can see what other books they reviewed and that okay. Okay, first they show an interest in your book, they apply, basically, and then, depending on how many, so interesting, I don't know, if you're giving away five books, you might get many more. If you're giving away 100 books, maybe you don't get 100 applications, but so I I'm currently have this reading around going and I thought that's a it's a nice way of doing it, so I'm just looking into different ways to get the word out. Yeah, and I feel like you know, I didn't. I didn't by by being german, but writing a book in english. Um, that is not exactly making it easier, you know, because all the you know, like even instagram, like understanding the algorithm, guess what? All the bookstagrammers that I am being pushed are and suggested are germ Germans, you know so so yeah, and then who write in German?
Speaker 1:I sorry, do they all write in German, the ones who you're? Yes, many, many, yeah, that's some also read in English.
Speaker 2:So you need to find the ones who also like to read in English. And yeah, and several answered me, I'd love to, but I, I just don't read in English all that much, you know. So it's interesting to, I guess, writing it in English in itself.
Speaker 1:Why did you decide to write it in English instead of in German?
Speaker 2:I didn't actually properly decide. Literally, english is my, so German is my native language, but English is so much closer to me, and if I ever write a diary when I have the time, it's in english. If I, like you know, it's always been in english, so english is probably closer to me, also at an emotional level, which I think what this was very important for. Um, my work is in english, my job is european. Um, my family at home talks in English most of the time, so it just happens to be that I'm in a very international setting and it's yeah.
Speaker 2:to me it was much, much more obvious to write in English.
Speaker 1:You could find because that's something that I find interesting with translations right Is that sometimes there's just not a word in another language for the English word or the German word or the French word or the Spanish word. There's just like there's not a word. And so when someone isn't writing in their native language, because they actually feel more of an emotional connection I don't know that I've ever heard that before Like I'm, I feel more of an emotional connection to a language, to the words in a language that are not my native language.
Speaker 2:But it's probably because the majority of my day is in English. It's in English, my husband and me speak in English.
Speaker 1:Do you?
Speaker 2:swear in English or in German? No, definitely English. I try not to because my little you know gnome at home. He picks up everything and uses it against you. If you let him, you have like multiple options.
Speaker 1:I think that's delightful. You know you have multiple options for how you want to swear. I I always feel like if I could swear in a foreign language it sounds prettier.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I have to have you teach me some things. We also speak Italian, some at home, and he, immediately, he knows what Italian word is a curse word he it like. He just picks it up like that, it's the, it's the tonality probably he's fluent in English Like there's no way out, there's like no, no stone to hide under. So if, like, he will pick it up immediately, even if he's, like you know, focused in his audio book and you can talk to him and he will not respond for 10 minutes, but as, but as soon as something like this drops, it's like what did you say? Yeah, you know, I think children are just like that. They're little swear word detectors.
Speaker 1:Tone does have something that you make a great point, though it's not like we.
Speaker 2:we say it kind or uh, you know, with a low.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, my gosh, okay. So now you're working on um the next book, right, my mind, my mind, your mind is working on it. So when will you start? What's your process today?
Speaker 2:When do you go?
Speaker 1:from your mind to the paper.
Speaker 2:Right. So, indeed, I felt that this time I might want to have a process, you know, because the last book it actually just grew, you know, and it grew and it grew. And now I was like, okay, no, wait a second. And last night, literally, my husband wanted to switch off the light. I'm like no, no, no, I'm making notes here.
Speaker 2:So I had a piece of paper that said main characters and I thought about who's my main characters and what's their key question? What are they battling with? Okay, and then I had some ideas for some key scenes. I put that down and there's some different piece of paper I had, like I have a page that says plot, but it's totally empty. So I'd like, you know, and several of these other things where I'm like I have and this is, I guess that was the process in the first place too I have scenes in my head. I have a scene where I'm like that's making the point, this is saying it all you know, and this is getting the feeling across, this is getting the message across. And then I write around that scene and then I have to figure out how do I get to that Like, what led up to that scene and where do we go from here? I think that was the process, but at first.
Speaker 2:One of the first scenes I wrote for the first book was probably that's at the very beginning of the book is where she puts her eyeliner on in the morning because that's that's what she always does, that's like it's a habit, like she can't do, not do it, it's not a thing, like doesn't exist, and I that and and one or two other scenes that just were there, and then I had to write a whole chapter around it and then from there it literally just grew into a book. What can I say? So that doesn't sound like much of a process, because it isn't.
Speaker 1:It is, though, right, like sometimes the process is. I don't really have a process, it's just I go with it.
Speaker 2:I would say honest to God in the first book very much so I didn't have a process.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think everyone I mean, one of the things I've certainly learned in talking to so many authors is there is no wrong process If it gets you to a finished book. It might take a year, it might take 10 years, but that's just what it is, and so some people start with a very concrete outline and some people just fly by the seat of their pants aka pantsers and some people are somewhere in between, and then sometimes you evolve from book to book and it's like like I I'm talking to Melissa De La Cruz, which I don't know if you're familiar with, melissa De La Cruz, because she's a, you know, primarily US, but she's written, according to Jordan Jordan Roeder, who's become my new BFF, she's written like 9 million books, which is obviously an exact. She's written so many books, though, and I'm and she's just prolific and I am reading her newest one right now, and I'm so curious to ask her how her process has evolved or changed. Yeah, like, what does she do today that she didn't do back at book one? Ie 9 million books ago?
Speaker 2:you know, yeah, and I do think, probably with every book you learn something. You know, like now I would know what to do for a launch. So you know, now for this book I feel like maybe I should have a plot first. You know like what an idea. But maybe you shouldn't. You know, maybe I shouldn't, because all these things that then grew into it and just bloomed, um, they came because there was no plot, but they were important and they showed up in their own good time, basically, and and I, I wrote the book, um in in just a few months, basically, you know, but it took me a year and a half to put it out there, because then we went into the editing and, and that was also, shall I say, not my favorite. I love working with you. So, no, no questions no, I know right, it's editing.
Speaker 2:You know, I hadn't even, uh, begun to understand what that means, and and going over it again and again, and again and again. That wasn't always my favorite part, but I think it makes it so much better and it makes it so much clearer of what am I trying to say here. Like and again, some scenes you write because they and we have this conversation, or some scenes they matter to you, to yourself, and you just want to have one person acknowledge and then you can put them to bed and bury them somewhere and you don't need them in the book because they're not important for the book. But, um, I'm hoping I didn't have too many of those, but I know I had one.
Speaker 1:I had a few, I think that, that, and I think everyone does. I really do. I really think that if you know, depending on how much you get on the page before you go to a beta read or an edit, like I think, at the end you almost everyone has something that it's like why is this here? Yes, and then you have to do some introspection and figure out well, why is that there? And, to your point, sometimes you just needed one person. The thing, whatever, it is, just needed to be seen by one person.
Speaker 2:And it just wanted to be seen by one person. And then I think we have the situation where you were like on Ron, which is like one of my favorite characters in the book, which is entirely made up.
Speaker 2:By the way, I do not have a Ron. Okay, I can still see ron. I love ron. Yeah, I love ron too. And I think you suggested in the one chapter to take out a page or two and I had to say I sat with it, you know, and I thought about it and I was like, absolutely not, yeah, I love this character way too much and this has so much about him that it has to stay, and at I didn't know why. But then I wrote a lot more about Ron which wasn't in the first draft. But I had to understand, like why does Ron have to stay? What's so important about Ron? And then Ron got so much bigger role in Hannah's life. But I had to, you know, I had to go through your question of where's this going, like why do we need? Yeah, right, take him out? I was saying no, absolutely not, he's so important. But I hadn't written it yet, you know. But when you asked me, it just it, just well, and that's the thing is flying through well, sometimes it's okay.
Speaker 1:Do I pull this out because it's there's not much, or do I add more? Right, if a character is super underdeveloped, then it, an editor, may say I don't't get it. Like this doesn't seem to add to the whole thing, let's pull this out. But when an author and this is why I really encourage authors to be a really active participant in their editing and to really advocate for the pieces of the book that are important to you, and even if you don't yet know why, right. So you, instead of just saying oh okay, liz said to pull it out, I'm just going to pull it out, you said no, no, no, I know I need this in here, exactly it. Just I just don't, I don't know. And so then you did build it out and then it works.
Speaker 2:In combination with your question, you know you should. In combination with your question, you know you should like, I think, at the end of one chapter you said what's what will make us root for the character, for hannah, more like, what does she stand to lose? What's her, you know? Why is this so important? And those two things together, you know, really tip the scale for me and made me think, no, okay, wait, wait, something about ron. And so, yeah, sorry, we can't tell People need to read the book, obviously, but I love Ron, you know. And now for my next book. So my thinking, I don't want to talk about it too much because you know, god knows, it's going to be something completely different, but you know it's.
Speaker 2:I guess when you write the next book, it's like do I kill all my characters and start from scratch, or do I just write something that's the next step for my first book? So it could be a series or it could be something entirely different, that's what I was going to say.
Speaker 1:Is it a series or is it a standalone?
Speaker 2:Exactly, and so now I'm thinking it could be the next book, like part two. Basically it doesn't have to be and maybe it won't. But now that I'm pondering it I'm like, oh no, but like, what about Ron? How do I? I'm wondering, how do I bring characters?
Speaker 1:along. That I like. Well, you know what some people do. That I think is really fun is they? They call them Easter eggs, right? So they? They bring a character from a or something from a previous book into the next book and it doesn't. You don't have to know who the character is, you don't have to know the context of the first book. But if you've read the first book you're like, oh my God, it's Ron or whatever the case. Yeah, In his first life, basically.
Speaker 2:So it's interesting how I think you grow. You create not worlds, in this case, because it's not fantasy or something right, but you create characters and you grow fond of them, maybe because they're part of you, but a lot of it is not part of you, in fact, a lot of it is very different from you, right but you grow fond of them. And so to me, right now, I'm thinking like oh, do I travel with them a little longer? You know, would they like to travel with me a little longer, right?
Speaker 1:Is it going to be something entirely different? Do they want to join us while we get doors in the house and put up baseboards?
Speaker 2:Exactly so and I'm thinking, you know, because this whole renovation piece was so traumatic. I'm like what room in my next book does a renovation have? Like, I need to write it in because I'm such an echo.
Speaker 2:at my day job I was telling my boss that I'm going to add construction site management to my skill profile now because I'm very proficient, you know, and I just don't want to, don't want to lose the fact that I just grew all these different skills over these past months and I can have conversations about tiles and how to put them down and how not to, and make it matter go wrong.
Speaker 1:Make it matter. Make this insanity matter right.
Speaker 2:Exactly. So, whatever, maybe this is going to be my first nonfiction like how to survive your renovation. I don't know. That's real tough Room for so many. And I see you, I'm sorry, makes me laugh, because I heard one of your last podcasts and you said you grew accustomed to moving away from the microphone when you're laughing and I just I see you physically doing that.
Speaker 1:I know because I it sounds so it's people will like immediately fast forward to the next podcast. If I were to laugh, my kids are like you laugh like a hyena and I I don't think that's a compliment, but I do know that when I laugh it can be very loud, so I do back away. Last question I always ask what do you? What are you reading now?
Speaker 2:right now I'm reading by Maya Angelou.
Speaker 2:I Know why the Caged Bird Sings really for the first time yes, first time, and I started reading it because I I saw so many of her videos when she was speaking, you know, and I love I think it was probably a masterclass with Oprah or something, I'm not sure but where she was saying that you have to have rainbows in your clouds.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know if you heard her say that and that she had a lot of. I don't know if you heard her say that and that she had a lot of I don't know clouds, but she also had so many rainbows in her clouds and to try to be a rainbow in somebody else's cloud, and I just get goosebumps when I even say it. So I think she's so inspiring and just through her life and through her words and just I mean amazing, just her words, they have so much power, and so I just I have to say I just discovered her, which maybe it's due to not being in the US or something, but I just literally discovered her last year. So I heard about her before many times, but I never started reading anything, and so now I'm reading.
Speaker 2:I Know why the Kitchbird Sings and I'm just trying to get anything as a. I don't think she did podcasts at the time, but there's recordings of her right, so there's a lot to listen to those videos and she's very, very inspiring, I think very wise.
Speaker 1:She was very wise.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly yeah exactly that's exactly the word, so that's what I'm reading, right?
Speaker 1:now. Well, I will put a link to everything, all of the things that we've talked about, all of wherever where everyone can find you, which would be Instagram, because that's what we're focusing on, and your book and the whole shebang in the notes. But, thank you, I hope you'll come back and talk about the second book.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. And if you have a new podcast on renovation, which I know you have an interest in, you know I have a huge interest in renovation.
Speaker 1:I'm tearing down walls by the day, but I don't want to write a book about it. No, I see, but we could talk about it. We could talk. Yeah, we could Well, thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for tuning in If Thank you. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode. This is your friendly reminder to follow or subscribe, leave a quick review and share it with someone you know has a great story or message, but isn't sure what to do next. Also, remember to check out publishaprofitablebookcom for book writing resources and tips and to see all the ways we can work together to get your book out into the world Again, thanks so much for listening and tips and to see all the ways we can work together to get your book out into the world. Again, thanks so much for listening and I'll talk with you again soon.
